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To quote from an article* cited by TFA: > The Internet Archive has long offered a system called the Open Library, where users can “check out” digital scans of

by tmtvl 2y ago

To quote from an article* cited by TFA: > The Internet Archive has long offered a system called the Open Library, where users can “check out” digital scans of physical books. The library was based on a principle called controlled digital lending, where each loan corresponds to a physically purchased book held in a library — avoiding, in theory, a piracy claim. It’s a fundamentally different system from programs like OverDrive, where publishers sell limited-time licenses to ebooks on their own terms. > However, the Internet Archive expanded its library project during the covid-19 pandemic. It launched the National Emergency Library, allowing an unlimited number of people to access the same copies of ebooks. That’s when the publishers banded together to file the lawsuit, targeting both online libraries. Now, maybe that article is mistaken or I'm misinterpreting what it says. If the lending is indeed controlled and goes 1 loan per book, which I know it was before that NEL thing, I've got no problem with that, and it seems like the publishers also didn't. If my reading is correct the publishers only went after IA after the NEL initiative launched. * https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/4/24235958/internet-archive-loses-appeal-ebook-lending https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/4/24235958/internet-archive-...

mdp2021 2y ago
> If the lending is indeed controlled and goes 1 loan per book, which I know it was before that NEL thing, I've got no problem with that, and it seems like the publishers also didn't [...] the publishers only went after IA after the NEL initiative launched It was one loan per book per time chunk (i.e., no simultaneous loan) before that "emergency" initiative, and it returned to one loan per book per time chunk afterwards. Although the publishers sued only after the "emergency" initiative started, no, the systemic side seems to have a problem, because the rulings seem to call the "I keep the physical copy and lend access to the scans temporarily" idea as illegal.
- tmtvl 2y ago
  > It was one loan per book per time chunk (i.e., no simultaneous loan) before that "emergency" initiative, Yes... > and it returned to one loan per book per time chunk afterwards. Okay, so they're not repeat offenders. Still doesn't make what they did right, though. > Although the publishers sued only after the "emergency" initiative started, Yes... > no, the systemic side seems to have a problem, because the rulings seem to call the "I keep the physical copy and lend access to the scans temporarily" idea as illegal. Yeah, the judiciary did seem to phrase it like that, didn't they... that's quite bad. Now, I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall that it was the Internet Archive who tried to conflate the standard controlled lending with the so-called 'emergency' measures? Now if I'm wrong that's my bad, but otherwise the IA are massive arseholes for ruining digital controlled lending for all of us. I just don't understand the pants-on-head intellectual dwarfism displayed by the IA, lockdowns don't give you the right to say 'unlimited digital copies for all!', that's just stupid. And if they muddied the waters by trying to portray their actions as just normal digital lending and got a precedent set that makes setting up a digital library harder in the future... well, let's just call that awful. And really, the whole saga makes the IA look terrible: 'oh, the evil publishers are trying to kill digital libraries, woe is us', no, the IA are destroying digital libraries. They broke copyright law (as unjust as it is, it's still law. If you want to protest, start with an organised march or a strike or something) and then they tried to drag the rest of us down with them. If they hadn't pulled that clown-shoes bonkers 'emergency initiative' shit we wouldn't have these terribly-worded rulings, hell, if they had just admitted their wrongdoing and settled out of court we wouldn't have those rulings. Again, I really like a lot of what the IA does and I regularly donate to them. But in this particular case they're the bad guys and it's really hard to see anything defensible in their conduct in this case.

by tmtvl 2y ago

mdp2021 2y ago

> If the lending is indeed controlled and goes 1 loan per book, which I know it was before that NEL thing, I've got no problem with that, and it seems like the publishers also didn't [...] the publishers only went after IA after the NEL initiative launched It was one loan per book per time chunk (i.e., no simultaneous loan) before that "emergency" initiative, and it returned to one loan per book per time chunk afterwards. Although the publishers sued only after the "emergency" initiative started, no, the systemic side seems to have a problem, because the rulings seem to call the "I keep the physical copy and lend access to the scans temporarily" idea as illegal.

tmtvl 2y ago
> It was one loan per book per time chunk (i.e., no simultaneous loan) before that "emergency" initiative, Yes... > and it returned to one loan per book per time chunk afterwards. Okay, so they're not repeat offenders. Still doesn't make what they did right, though. > Although the publishers sued only after the "emergency" initiative started, Yes... > no, the systemic side seems to have a problem, because the rulings seem to call the "I keep the physical copy and lend access to the scans temporarily" idea as illegal. Yeah, the judiciary did seem to phrase it like that, didn't they... that's quite bad. Now, I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall that it was the Internet Archive who tried to conflate the standard controlled lending with the so-called 'emergency' measures? Now if I'm wrong that's my bad, but otherwise the IA are massive arseholes for ruining digital controlled lending for all of us. I just don't understand the pants-on-head intellectual dwarfism displayed by the IA, lockdowns don't give you the right to say 'unlimited digital copies for all!', that's just stupid. And if they muddied the waters by trying to portray their actions as just normal digital lending and got a precedent set that makes setting up a digital library harder in the future... well, let's just call that awful. And really, the whole saga makes the IA look terrible: 'oh, the evil publishers are trying to kill digital libraries, woe is us', no, the IA are destroying digital libraries. They broke copyright law (as unjust as it is, it's still law. If you want to protest, start with an organised march or a strike or something) and then they tried to drag the rest of us down with them. If they hadn't pulled that clown-shoes bonkers 'emergency initiative' shit we wouldn't have these terribly-worded rulings, hell, if they had just admitted their wrongdoing and settled out of court we wouldn't have those rulings. Again, I really like a lot of what the IA does and I regularly donate to them. But in this particular case they're the bad guys and it's really hard to see anything defensible in their conduct in this case.