7 ms·

Omega-3 intake counteracts symptoms of anxiety and depression in mice

293 points by geox 2y ago

elromulous 2y ago
This is exciting, and should be fairly easy to confirm/deny with a double blind trial in humans. There's no money to be had in it for big pharma, so funding it would have to come from some other means, but it should be possible.
- setting1855 2y ago
  as opposed to supplement studies in mice, which are notoriously lucrative
  - brokensegue 2y ago
    they are cheaper
  - elromulous 2y ago
    As the other comment mentions, mouse studies are hilariously cheap compared to human trials. We're talking many orders of magnitude. A couple grad students can do a mouse study at costs very much approaching zero.
- nosefurhairdo 2y ago
  There's already research on Omega 3 supplementation's impact on depression + anxiety symptoms in humans. The results generally show that Omega 3 is roughly as effective as antidepressants, and can be safely taken in addition to antidepressants for an even greater effect.
  - petesergeant 2y ago
    Examine.com summary: > Fish oil supplementation has been noted to be comparable to pharmaceutical drugs (fluoxetine) in majorly depressed persons, but this may be the only cohort that experiences a reduction of depression. There is insufficient evidence to support a reduction of depressive symptoms in persons with minor depression (ie. not diagnosed major depressive disorder) They give it a B for the research and an effect size of moderate improvement. Also a B with a small effect size for anxiety. https://examine.com/supplements/fish-oil https://examine.com/supplements/fish-oil I’d note it also says: > A meta-analysis of 35 small, randomized trials found that fish oil can slightly improve depression when compared to control. However, this improvement may be too small to be noticeable. Also, adding fish oil to antidepressant medication seems to be more beneficial than antidepressant treatment alone In short, sounds like it’s worth throwing in as an adjunct treatment for people wanting to take a kitchen sink approach
    - jaggederest 2y ago
      > They give it a B for the research and an effect size of moderate improvement. Also a B with a small effect size for anxiety To be fair, this is among the most highly rated things on the entire site - let not the "B" scare you off. A moderate effect size is pretty substantial, all things considered.
- RobotToaster 2y ago
  > There's no money to be had in it for big pharma IIRC there's several patent medicine versions of omega 3 such as icosapent ethyl
FollowingTheDao 2y ago
High long chain omega 3 and low omega 6 not only revered my hyperlipidemia (through stimulating reverse cholesterol transport) but notably reduces my symptoms of schizoaffective disorder bipolar type (I am assuming this is through assisting with carecholamine receptor function). I came to the conclusion this diet would help me by noting the polymorphisms in my FADS1 and FADS2 genes linked to needing more long chain PUFAs. You might also be interested that omega 3 is responsible for making natural Cannabinoid (endocannabinoids) in humans which could be linked to the lower anxiety.
- wtetzner 2y ago
  Yeah, I've noticed too much Omega 6 is at least one big cause of my anxiety. Avoiding vegetable oils (and foods that are cooked with it) and just using coconut oil, tallow, butter etc. reduces my anxiety to the point that it's barely noticeable.
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    IMHO, Omega 3 increases GABA and Omega 6 increases Glutamate. I am going to guess that if you ever smoked pot that high THC weed makes you severely anxious?
    - s__s 2y ago
      Can you elaborate on the connection you’re drawing here?
      - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
        Omega 6 creates an endocannibinoid that is more like Delta 9 THC and Delta 9 THC increases glutamate release. This will cause psychosis in people who have high glutamate levels or low GABA levels. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7714685/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7714685/ Omega 3 creates an endocannibinoid that is more like CBD and CBD increases GABA release. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1043661816311392 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10436...
Trasmatta 2y ago
Omega 3 supplements are such a wild world. So many low quality ones, so many different types, and so many claims about them being miracle cures (that then don't hold out for later studies). I have severe chronic dry eye, and omega 3 is one of the first things they recommend. But then in the past 5 or 6 years there have been a bunch of studies that have shown there is no actual measurable effect. Some people still claim that it helps, but that you have to get it by actually eating Omega 3 rich fish, and not just taking the supplements. Either way, I've never seen any difference with my dry eye symptoms.
- oidar 2y ago
  I have dry eye as well. What have you done that helps? Omega 3 didn’t do anything for me either.
  - nanna 2y ago
    I had agonising pain from dry eyes when I woke up. It felt like my lense was scratched, but it wasn't. An eye specialist told me that in fact my eyelid pores were bunged up and weren't release enough moisture at night. A predisposition that years at the screen not blinking enough made accute. He advised eyelid wipes morning and night and it cleared the issue. he told me that instead of eyelid wipes, to keep the costs down, I could use bicarbonate of soda (medical grade) boiled in water (about a teaspoon to 500ml I think, and then just dip qtips into it (cooled of course). Keep that mix in the fridge for no longer than a week before making a new batch.
    - oidar 2y ago
      I have a nearly identical issue. Do you recall the diagnosis? Also, when you do the wipes how "deep" do you go when wiping the lids?
      - nanna 2y ago
        Sorry to hear that. I forget exactly the diagnosis but maybe it was meibomian gland dysfunction and/or blepharitis? How deep? Basically with one hand pull your eyelid up or down (depending on which one) and then while keeping your eye open, which I find quite hard, wipe along the pink line of the eyelid with the eyelid wipe backwards and forwards ten times. It has to be along this line as that's where the glands are. Do this for both top and bottom eyelid. If it's really bad like mine was you might need to take some medication - I was put on steroids I think. Sorry memory not serving me hugely well here but good luck! I'll check for comments in case this wasn't clear enough.
maxresdefault 2y ago
This is great, but why does Omega 3 paradoxically reduce expression of dopamine receptors and dopamine release
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  Because it makes the dopamine more effective.
- daniel_reetz 2y ago
  The dopamine hypothesis is being heavily debated and revisited these days. Might be worth checking any assumptions against current research.
nightmonkey 2y ago
Does caffeine intake nullify this effect?
cultofmetatron 2y ago
This definitely tracks with my experience. I take a tablespoon of cod liver oil daily and I've definitely noticed a complete flatlining of my emotional states. My baseline is just basic calmness and a general lack of "monkeymind"/intrusive thoughts. Really amazed its not a more prescribed treatment.
- alberth 2y ago
  Cod is super high in Vitamin D, and considered by many historians the secret food that contributed to Vikings success. https://goodness-exchange.com/cod-vikings-vitamin-d/ https://goodness-exchange.com/cod-vikings-vitamin-d/
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Beijinger 2y ago
    Cod is super high in Vitamin A too and I would be worried about your liver.
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      According to USDA, Atlantic Cod has no vitamin A. What is your source?
      - salad-tycoon 2y ago
        Pretty sure cod liver oil has vitamin A. Used to be a treatment for measles and rickets and others because of its vitamin A contents. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258476/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258476/ https://www.westonaprice.org/did-cod-liver-oil-contribute-to-the-historical-decline-in-measles-mortality-and-mortality-from-other-infectious-diseases/ https://www.westonaprice.org/did-cod-liver-oil-contribute-to...
      - Beijinger 2y ago
        Sorry, maybe it was a misunderstanding, especially since the Vikings were mentioned on the thread. I was thinking about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_liver_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_liver_oil
mmanfrin 2y ago
Well this is a great thing to see an hour after buying some O3s. I have read though that omega-3 supplements seem to not do much, it's the intake of them dietarily that show results, I'm not sure how current that research is. I've also read that algae as a source might be better? There's a tremendous amount of conflicting information.
- oarfish 2y ago
  > I have read though that omega-3 supplements seem to not do much afaik that holds for a lot (if not most) commonly used supplements (vitamins are another popular offender). Sometimes the reason is the food matrix effect, where just isolated nutrients are not as beneficial as when they are consumed along with other nutrients. Sometimes (like vitamin D or testosterone), the biomarker is reflective of health status, not predictive. From this [1] podcast (2y old at this point) I too seem to remember that it doesn't do much most of the time, that supplements are generally untrustworthy w.r.t. dosing and purity and there's also a slight chance of giving yourself afib. 1. https://soundcloud.com/user-344313169/episode-193-fish-oil https://soundcloud.com/user-344313169/episode-193-fish-oil
reubensutton 2y ago
There’s never been a better time to be a mouse
- CatWChainsaw 2y ago
  Right up until any given study with mice concludes...
- atombender 2y ago
  Or a worse one. I know you're making a joke, but it doesn't seem that funny to me — U.S. biomedical industry goes through about 111 million lab mice and rats each year [1]. Most mice lives are short and cruel, living their entire lives in tiny plastic boxes and often subjected to horrific experiences. We should be more thankful. [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/how-many-mice-and-rats-are-used-us-labs-controversial-study-says-more-100-million https://www.science.org/content/article/how-many-mice-and-ra...
  - hirvi74 2y ago
    I really appreciate that someone else shares my opinions on this matter. It pains me what we do to animals for our benefit. I suppose there is no other alternative, but that does not diminish the cruelty. I feel the same way about the "Boar's Head" meat recall in the US due to Listeria. 7 million pounds of meat must be disposed of. That means every single one of the pigs died for that meat died for absolutely nothing at all. It just doesn't sit right with me.
- PlattypusRex 2y ago
  This isn't funny. Mice and rats are among the most intelligent animals used in research, and despite ethical regulations on their treatment, they are often ignored. Many of these animals endure severe procedures without adequate pain relief, or none at all. This widespread suffering also causes mental health problems for many of the researchers who have to regularly euthanize them. These animals sacrifice their lives to improve human health and well-being. At the very least, we should show respect for their pain and suffering, which is undertaken for our benefit.
- 2y ago
throwaway984393 2y ago
[dead]
voytec 2y ago
"Omega-3" is as vague and underdescriptive term as "marihuana". We're better educated now and we can focus on the eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) where it comes to Omega 3. And we can point at THC, CBN, CBD or any of the 100+ other cannabinoids present in cannabis flowers when we describe "marihuana", "weed" or "pot". And there's a reason behind my local pharmacy offering THC-focused or CBD-focused pot, and my local supplements store offering DHA-focused and EPA-focused softgels, produced by the same company and under the same brand. How these these products act varies by active substances content and the person. Both "Omega 3" and "marihuana" are dumbed-down terms, meaningless when it comes to studies or papers. There's a ton of studies on nih.gov about EPA's potential as an antidepressant, misaligned with DHA-related articles on the subject, that I could link. But I can say - purely anecdotally - that I removed psypost.org feed from my RSS reader a few months after ChatGPT became public.
- orblivion 2y ago
  I had been under the mistaken impression that DHA was only interesting inasmuch as your body inefficiently turns it into EPA.
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    DHA and EPA have distinct roles in the body. Both are necessary for most people, especially for males and for older people, because the inter-conversions between the various omega-3 fatty acids are done inefficiently by humans. The other omega-3 fatty acids do not have known functions, except as sources of DHA and EPA, after an enzymatic conversion.
- derefr 2y ago
  I think there's a practical distinction between the kind of term "omega-3" is vs the kind of term "marijuana" is. You mostly only find THC/CBD/etc in marijuana; and we mostly only consume marijuana to get those particular active ingredients into our bodies. So you can forget about "marijuana" as a category for describing those compounds, and just speak of the compounds themselves — measure marijuana strains by the presence of those active ingredients; extract and purify one particular active ingredient and sell it; etc. Doing this doesn't lose you anything; in fact, it's a pure win, as the use of precise language gives people a tool to leverage to more precisely ask for the effect they're looking for, and gives suppliers a tool to more precisely describe what they're selling. While the omega-3 constituent compounds can be treated this way, they are not solely a thing we extract or synthesize to put in precise-molarity-per-dose pills; they're also a thing found in food. Many different foods; with most of them being foods people eat for reasons beyond just getting omega-3s in their bodies. In other words, the "omega-3" constituent compounds are nutrients. And many of these omega-3-containing foods — fish, for example — aren't carefully cultivated species that have known ratios of the omega-3 constituent compounds that could be put on the label of the food-product. Rather, the ratio of those constituent compounds is pretty much random per individual food item. One salmon at the grocery store has omega-3 fats which happen to be high in DHA, while the next salmon beside it in the same cooler display is higher in EPA. All you can in general about a food product — all a supplier can say, and all a food shopper can generally expect to look for — is a food that is "high in omega-3s." As long as people are interested in optimizing their health in a loose manner by eating "healthful foods" — rather than taking specifically-formulated supplements — I don't expect they'll let go of the generic categorical term "omega-3." When it comes to food, "it contains omega-3s" is almost always the tightest bound you can put on the "nutritional value" of a given food.
dukeofdoom 2y ago
Anxiety and depressions are feelings. Eating feels good for a little bit. But I could easily make the claim that getting a dog and taking it for regular walks in nature counteracts symptoms of anxiety and depression. Doing Yoga with synchronized breathing...same Taking a hot bath, a sauna session, a massage, sex, a long list. Why do so many people think eating something is the path to good health. Also knowing how things are encoded in neural networks, where it's a combination of variables that sets off some behaviour. Why do Scientists still persist on trying to isolate a single variable.
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  I take it you were never in a psychiatric hospital with people urging you to get ECT? I was. Hot baths don’t work, but that’s just me. Blanket recommendations are useless and harmful. It turns out I have a genetic issue causing my mood issues and diet is my treatment.
  - dukeofdoom 2y ago
    By all means, eat as much healthy food as you can afford. But whatever caused your psychiatric problems, it couldn't have been food. Unless you're so poor that you severely malnourished, or you're eating something severely toxic. And even then, lots of places in this world with malnourished populations that are not depressed. Improving the quality of your life is not just food. It's all the other things that go into it. Like autonomy, sense of security, friends, social status, finances, physical activity levels, etc. So be sure to look after improving those things too. And my suggestion for walking a dog, is a simple and practical suggestion for something that will get you both companionship and exercise. From personal experience, quitting smoking helped with anxiety. That longing feeling for a cigarette was making me anxious, and that feeling would persist even after having one. So quitting was helpful. But again, smoking is not eating.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      > By all means, eat as much healthy food as you can afford. But whatever caused your psychiatric problems, it couldn't have been food Are there purines, like Inosine and Guanosine, in food? Did you even ask what my genetic disorder is?
readyplayernull 2y ago
On a related topic, I started taking bacopa monnieri and it improved my memory and mental endurance, anxiety and depression. I gave it to my wife and had the totally opposite effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa_monnieri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa_monnieri Also I can drink coffee and won't make any effect on my sleep, while my wife gets the boost. I wouldn't be surprised the effects of all those supplements depend on your body chemistry. They can't differentiate the population, so all these studies will average zero.
- huuhee3 2y ago
  Yep, what works for one may not work for others. Some people find L-theanine supplement helpful for reducing anxiety. For me it kind of worked, but then gave bad anxiety as a withdrawal symptom.
- crucialfelix 2y ago
  Bacopa Monnieri aka Brahmi has been very effective to eliminate mental turbulence for me. It has a calming, sharp, bitter effect. It's like it's cleaning something up. If my mind is overactive in bed at night I take Brahmi and I quickly feel settled.
- DrBenCarson 2y ago
  Are you measuring your vitals during sleep with a watch or a ring? Might not be affecting your ability to fall asleep but hard to imagine it does nothing to your brain or heart while you’re unconscious
- aitchnyu 2y ago
  Whoa, the plant in my aquarium is the same in the TV jingle "for memory and intelligence, Santhosh brahmi" for the Ayurvedic supplement?
meindnoch 2y ago
When I took omega-3 in addition to duloxetine, I got terrible brain zaps the whole day.
- scellus 2y ago
  That's interesting, zaps are a withdrawal syndrome of SSRIs (and duloxetine).
  - meindnoch 2y ago
    Yep. That's where I knew brain zaps from, because I previously experienced them when coming off SSRIs.
    - seper8 2y ago
      I had them after an accidental too big MDMA dose, after which I felt depressed for a few weeks.
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    Buspirone (an anti-anxiety) gave me brain zaps within an hour of taking it. Didn't seem to help with the anxiety at all though...
dukeofdoom 2y ago
[flagged]
fredgrott 2y ago
It should not be title Omega-3! The article clearly States Omega-3, 8, and Omega-9!
bookofbiden 2y ago
[flagged]
hereme888 2y ago
Why are we still looking at mice studies for such a human-used substance? This study used EPA: 0.55 mg/kg/day, and DHA: 0.55 mg/kg/day. Among the largest I've heard in human studies are things like 4,400mg EPA and 2,200mg DHA. Examine.com is one of the best resources to understand what evidence shows about supplements. EPA appears to be the component that works for depression. Also, important these days, is the quality: it should be filtered from heavy metals, and processed and stored in a way that avoids it going rancid by the time you consume it. I strongly believe in the benefits of having a higher omega-3:omega-6 ratio than is common nowadays.
- mattnewton 2y ago
  > Once the behavioral tests were completed, the mice were killed, and their blood and tissues were analyzed to assess the biological effects of stress and omega-3 supplementation. I think they are trying to show biological causes by carefully controlling the mice’s entire life and then cracking them open at the end of the study. Can’t really do that with humans.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ahallock 2y ago
  You have to be careful with such high doses over a long period of time. It can cause heart arrhythmia.
genewitch 2y ago
There's a study about omega3 supplementation that says that if children in a family supplement it, that the parents have a better relationship, even if they don't supplement. I can probably dig it out, given enough time with a search engine. Another one is D. over the course of three years i managed to help my wife get above 100ng/ml 25-hydroxy-D on a blood test. Of course every doctor called and said "too high" and her Calcium is too high too, but not from the D3, folks, because she takes K2 Mk7. Her calcium is high because she mostly drinks fortified orange juice and was taking 1200mg calcium per day at the direction of her oncologist. She has a lot of chronic issues and we're slowly trying to mitigate everything possible with diet and supplements. The specialist said "stop calcium immediately" and "reduce D for 1 month" only. for those aware her Ca was 10.9 ("good" range is ~9.0 - 10.2). I guarantee that her calcium will go back to normal because of the K2 between now and her next blood panel. note: they don't actually test D levels unless you ask, in general. One might wonder why that is - i know i certainly do. In fact, i was just about to go to the pharmacy to get Omega-3 supplements when i saw this post. Her chart shows that she must supplement omega 3, since she won't eat baked salmon. My kid already has vitamins with omegas in them. What i recommend is actually reading studies - completely - and if you have any questions or doubts, befriend researchers in biology or other life sciences that can skim the paper and tell you "meh" or "hey that's cool". Studies contradict, studies may have bad inputs or methodology, the only way to know for sure is to read as many as you can as thoroughly as you can, and if possible, consult experts. Medical doctors of the "PCP" persuasion are not experts, generally.
- eightysixfour 2y ago
  You could just pay for an examine.com subscription. That’s pretty much what they offer as a service - third party evaluation of studies to provide unbiased advice for different supplements.
ilius2 2y ago
All omega-3 supplements are probably somewhat rancid and possibly harmful, specially in solid / pill form! I personally take cod liver oil (liquid) from a reputable brand, but I still don't %100 trust it to be healthy. It's much better to eat fatty fish or actual cod liver.
- alihm 2y ago
  Can you say which brand? And what research have you found on them? I also do the same and just wonder if they actually work or not
  - ilius2 2y ago
    EuRho Vital. Didn't find any research on it, but many doctors/dietitians I follow on YouTube said cod liver oil is better than pills. What do you use?
byyoung3 2y ago
This isn’t new.
martin82 2y ago
Eating only eggs, beef, fish, olive oil, greek yogurt, blueberries, walnuts and some cheese and dark leafy greens can do the same.

293 points by geox 2y ago

This is exciting, and should be fairly easy to confirm/deny with a double blind trial in humans. There's no money to be had in it for big pharma, so funding it would have to come from some other means, but it should be possible.

setting1855 2y ago
as opposed to supplement studies in mice, which are notoriously lucrative
- brokensegue 2y ago
  they are cheaper
- elromulous 2y ago
  As the other comment mentions, mouse studies are hilariously cheap compared to human trials. We're talking many orders of magnitude. A couple grad students can do a mouse study at costs very much approaching zero.
nosefurhairdo 2y ago
There's already research on Omega 3 supplementation's impact on depression + anxiety symptoms in humans. The results generally show that Omega 3 is roughly as effective as antidepressants, and can be safely taken in addition to antidepressants for an even greater effect.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  Examine.com summary: > Fish oil supplementation has been noted to be comparable to pharmaceutical drugs (fluoxetine) in majorly depressed persons, but this may be the only cohort that experiences a reduction of depression. There is insufficient evidence to support a reduction of depressive symptoms in persons with minor depression (ie. not diagnosed major depressive disorder) They give it a B for the research and an effect size of moderate improvement. Also a B with a small effect size for anxiety. https://examine.com/supplements/fish-oil https://examine.com/supplements/fish-oil I’d note it also says: > A meta-analysis of 35 small, randomized trials found that fish oil can slightly improve depression when compared to control. However, this improvement may be too small to be noticeable. Also, adding fish oil to antidepressant medication seems to be more beneficial than antidepressant treatment alone In short, sounds like it’s worth throwing in as an adjunct treatment for people wanting to take a kitchen sink approach
  - jaggederest 2y ago
    > They give it a B for the research and an effect size of moderate improvement. Also a B with a small effect size for anxiety To be fair, this is among the most highly rated things on the entire site - let not the "B" scare you off. A moderate effect size is pretty substantial, all things considered.
RobotToaster 2y ago
> There's no money to be had in it for big pharma IIRC there's several patent medicine versions of omega 3 such as icosapent ethyl

FollowingTheDao 2y ago

High long chain omega 3 and low omega 6 not only revered my hyperlipidemia (through stimulating reverse cholesterol transport) but notably reduces my symptoms of schizoaffective disorder bipolar type (I am assuming this is through assisting with carecholamine receptor function). I came to the conclusion this diet would help me by noting the polymorphisms in my FADS1 and FADS2 genes linked to needing more long chain PUFAs. You might also be interested that omega 3 is responsible for making natural Cannabinoid (endocannabinoids) in humans which could be linked to the lower anxiety.

wtetzner 2y ago
Yeah, I've noticed too much Omega 6 is at least one big cause of my anxiety. Avoiding vegetable oils (and foods that are cooked with it) and just using coconut oil, tallow, butter etc. reduces my anxiety to the point that it's barely noticeable.
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  IMHO, Omega 3 increases GABA and Omega 6 increases Glutamate. I am going to guess that if you ever smoked pot that high THC weed makes you severely anxious?
  - s__s 2y ago
    Can you elaborate on the connection you’re drawing here?
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      Omega 6 creates an endocannibinoid that is more like Delta 9 THC and Delta 9 THC increases glutamate release. This will cause psychosis in people who have high glutamate levels or low GABA levels. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7714685/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7714685/ Omega 3 creates an endocannibinoid that is more like CBD and CBD increases GABA release. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1043661816311392 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10436...

Trasmatta 2y ago

Omega 3 supplements are such a wild world. So many low quality ones, so many different types, and so many claims about them being miracle cures (that then don't hold out for later studies). I have severe chronic dry eye, and omega 3 is one of the first things they recommend. But then in the past 5 or 6 years there have been a bunch of studies that have shown there is no actual measurable effect. Some people still claim that it helps, but that you have to get it by actually eating Omega 3 rich fish, and not just taking the supplements. Either way, I've never seen any difference with my dry eye symptoms.

oidar 2y ago
I have dry eye as well. What have you done that helps? Omega 3 didn’t do anything for me either.
- nanna 2y ago
  I had agonising pain from dry eyes when I woke up. It felt like my lense was scratched, but it wasn't. An eye specialist told me that in fact my eyelid pores were bunged up and weren't release enough moisture at night. A predisposition that years at the screen not blinking enough made accute. He advised eyelid wipes morning and night and it cleared the issue. he told me that instead of eyelid wipes, to keep the costs down, I could use bicarbonate of soda (medical grade) boiled in water (about a teaspoon to 500ml I think, and then just dip qtips into it (cooled of course). Keep that mix in the fridge for no longer than a week before making a new batch.
  - oidar 2y ago
    I have a nearly identical issue. Do you recall the diagnosis? Also, when you do the wipes how "deep" do you go when wiping the lids?
    - nanna 2y ago
      Sorry to hear that. I forget exactly the diagnosis but maybe it was meibomian gland dysfunction and/or blepharitis? How deep? Basically with one hand pull your eyelid up or down (depending on which one) and then while keeping your eye open, which I find quite hard, wipe along the pink line of the eyelid with the eyelid wipe backwards and forwards ten times. It has to be along this line as that's where the glands are. Do this for both top and bottom eyelid. If it's really bad like mine was you might need to take some medication - I was put on steroids I think. Sorry memory not serving me hugely well here but good luck! I'll check for comments in case this wasn't clear enough.

maxresdefault 2y ago

This is great, but why does Omega 3 paradoxically reduce expression of dopamine receptors and dopamine release

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
Because it makes the dopamine more effective.
daniel_reetz 2y ago
The dopamine hypothesis is being heavily debated and revisited these days. Might be worth checking any assumptions against current research.

nightmonkey 2y ago

Does caffeine intake nullify this effect?

cultofmetatron 2y ago

This definitely tracks with my experience. I take a tablespoon of cod liver oil daily and I've definitely noticed a complete flatlining of my emotional states. My baseline is just basic calmness and a general lack of "monkeymind"/intrusive thoughts. Really amazed its not a more prescribed treatment.

alberth 2y ago
Cod is super high in Vitamin D, and considered by many historians the secret food that contributed to Vikings success. https://goodness-exchange.com/cod-vikings-vitamin-d/ https://goodness-exchange.com/cod-vikings-vitamin-d/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Beijinger 2y ago
  Cod is super high in Vitamin A too and I would be worried about your liver.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    According to USDA, Atlantic Cod has no vitamin A. What is your source?
    - salad-tycoon 2y ago
      Pretty sure cod liver oil has vitamin A. Used to be a treatment for measles and rickets and others because of its vitamin A contents. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258476/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258476/ https://www.westonaprice.org/did-cod-liver-oil-contribute-to-the-historical-decline-in-measles-mortality-and-mortality-from-other-infectious-diseases/ https://www.westonaprice.org/did-cod-liver-oil-contribute-to...
    - Beijinger 2y ago
      Sorry, maybe it was a misunderstanding, especially since the Vikings were mentioned on the thread. I was thinking about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_liver_oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_liver_oil

mmanfrin 2y ago

Well this is a great thing to see an hour after buying some O3s. I have read though that omega-3 supplements seem to not do much, it's the intake of them dietarily that show results, I'm not sure how current that research is. I've also read that algae as a source might be better? There's a tremendous amount of conflicting information.

oarfish 2y ago
> I have read though that omega-3 supplements seem to not do much afaik that holds for a lot (if not most) commonly used supplements (vitamins are another popular offender). Sometimes the reason is the food matrix effect, where just isolated nutrients are not as beneficial as when they are consumed along with other nutrients. Sometimes (like vitamin D or testosterone), the biomarker is reflective of health status, not predictive. From this [1] podcast (2y old at this point) I too seem to remember that it doesn't do much most of the time, that supplements are generally untrustworthy w.r.t. dosing and purity and there's also a slight chance of giving yourself afib. 1. https://soundcloud.com/user-344313169/episode-193-fish-oil https://soundcloud.com/user-344313169/episode-193-fish-oil

reubensutton 2y ago

There’s never been a better time to be a mouse

CatWChainsaw 2y ago
Right up until any given study with mice concludes...
atombender 2y ago
Or a worse one. I know you're making a joke, but it doesn't seem that funny to me — U.S. biomedical industry goes through about 111 million lab mice and rats each year [1]. Most mice lives are short and cruel, living their entire lives in tiny plastic boxes and often subjected to horrific experiences. We should be more thankful. [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/how-many-mice-and-rats-are-used-us-labs-controversial-study-says-more-100-million https://www.science.org/content/article/how-many-mice-and-ra...
- hirvi74 2y ago
  I really appreciate that someone else shares my opinions on this matter. It pains me what we do to animals for our benefit. I suppose there is no other alternative, but that does not diminish the cruelty. I feel the same way about the "Boar's Head" meat recall in the US due to Listeria. 7 million pounds of meat must be disposed of. That means every single one of the pigs died for that meat died for absolutely nothing at all. It just doesn't sit right with me.
PlattypusRex 2y ago
This isn't funny. Mice and rats are among the most intelligent animals used in research, and despite ethical regulations on their treatment, they are often ignored. Many of these animals endure severe procedures without adequate pain relief, or none at all. This widespread suffering also causes mental health problems for many of the researchers who have to regularly euthanize them. These animals sacrifice their lives to improve human health and well-being. At the very least, we should show respect for their pain and suffering, which is undertaken for our benefit.
2y ago

throwaway984393 2y ago

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voytec 2y ago

"Omega-3" is as vague and underdescriptive term as "marihuana". We're better educated now and we can focus on the eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) where it comes to Omega 3. And we can point at THC, CBN, CBD or any of the 100+ other cannabinoids present in cannabis flowers when we describe "marihuana", "weed" or "pot". And there's a reason behind my local pharmacy offering THC-focused or CBD-focused pot, and my local supplements store offering DHA-focused and EPA-focused softgels, produced by the same company and under the same brand. How these these products act varies by active substances content and the person. Both "Omega 3" and "marihuana" are dumbed-down terms, meaningless when it comes to studies or papers. There's a ton of studies on nih.gov about EPA's potential as an antidepressant, misaligned with DHA-related articles on the subject, that I could link. But I can say - purely anecdotally - that I removed psypost.org feed from my RSS reader a few months after ChatGPT became public.

orblivion 2y ago
I had been under the mistaken impression that DHA was only interesting inasmuch as your body inefficiently turns it into EPA.
- adrian_b 2y ago
  DHA and EPA have distinct roles in the body. Both are necessary for most people, especially for males and for older people, because the inter-conversions between the various omega-3 fatty acids are done inefficiently by humans. The other omega-3 fatty acids do not have known functions, except as sources of DHA and EPA, after an enzymatic conversion.
derefr 2y ago
I think there's a practical distinction between the kind of term "omega-3" is vs the kind of term "marijuana" is. You mostly only find THC/CBD/etc in marijuana; and we mostly only consume marijuana to get those particular active ingredients into our bodies. So you can forget about "marijuana" as a category for describing those compounds, and just speak of the compounds themselves — measure marijuana strains by the presence of those active ingredients; extract and purify one particular active ingredient and sell it; etc. Doing this doesn't lose you anything; in fact, it's a pure win, as the use of precise language gives people a tool to leverage to more precisely ask for the effect they're looking for, and gives suppliers a tool to more precisely describe what they're selling. While the omega-3 constituent compounds can be treated this way, they are not solely a thing we extract or synthesize to put in precise-molarity-per-dose pills; they're also a thing found in food. Many different foods; with most of them being foods people eat for reasons beyond just getting omega-3s in their bodies. In other words, the "omega-3" constituent compounds are nutrients. And many of these omega-3-containing foods — fish, for example — aren't carefully cultivated species that have known ratios of the omega-3 constituent compounds that could be put on the label of the food-product. Rather, the ratio of those constituent compounds is pretty much random per individual food item. One salmon at the grocery store has omega-3 fats which happen to be high in DHA, while the next salmon beside it in the same cooler display is higher in EPA. All you can in general about a food product — all a supplier can say, and all a food shopper can generally expect to look for — is a food that is "high in omega-3s." As long as people are interested in optimizing their health in a loose manner by eating "healthful foods" — rather than taking specifically-formulated supplements — I don't expect they'll let go of the generic categorical term "omega-3." When it comes to food, "it contains omega-3s" is almost always the tightest bound you can put on the "nutritional value" of a given food.

dukeofdoom 2y ago

Anxiety and depressions are feelings. Eating feels good for a little bit. But I could easily make the claim that getting a dog and taking it for regular walks in nature counteracts symptoms of anxiety and depression. Doing Yoga with synchronized breathing...same Taking a hot bath, a sauna session, a massage, sex, a long list. Why do so many people think eating something is the path to good health. Also knowing how things are encoded in neural networks, where it's a combination of variables that sets off some behaviour. Why do Scientists still persist on trying to isolate a single variable.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
I take it you were never in a psychiatric hospital with people urging you to get ECT? I was. Hot baths don’t work, but that’s just me. Blanket recommendations are useless and harmful. It turns out I have a genetic issue causing my mood issues and diet is my treatment.
- dukeofdoom 2y ago
  By all means, eat as much healthy food as you can afford. But whatever caused your psychiatric problems, it couldn't have been food. Unless you're so poor that you severely malnourished, or you're eating something severely toxic. And even then, lots of places in this world with malnourished populations that are not depressed. Improving the quality of your life is not just food. It's all the other things that go into it. Like autonomy, sense of security, friends, social status, finances, physical activity levels, etc. So be sure to look after improving those things too. And my suggestion for walking a dog, is a simple and practical suggestion for something that will get you both companionship and exercise. From personal experience, quitting smoking helped with anxiety. That longing feeling for a cigarette was making me anxious, and that feeling would persist even after having one. So quitting was helpful. But again, smoking is not eating.
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    > By all means, eat as much healthy food as you can afford. But whatever caused your psychiatric problems, it couldn't have been food Are there purines, like Inosine and Guanosine, in food? Did you even ask what my genetic disorder is?

readyplayernull 2y ago

On a related topic, I started taking bacopa monnieri and it improved my memory and mental endurance, anxiety and depression. I gave it to my wife and had the totally opposite effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa_monnieri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacopa_monnieri Also I can drink coffee and won't make any effect on my sleep, while my wife gets the boost. I wouldn't be surprised the effects of all those supplements depend on your body chemistry. They can't differentiate the population, so all these studies will average zero.

huuhee3 2y ago
Yep, what works for one may not work for others. Some people find L-theanine supplement helpful for reducing anxiety. For me it kind of worked, but then gave bad anxiety as a withdrawal symptom.
crucialfelix 2y ago
Bacopa Monnieri aka Brahmi has been very effective to eliminate mental turbulence for me. It has a calming, sharp, bitter effect. It's like it's cleaning something up. If my mind is overactive in bed at night I take Brahmi and I quickly feel settled.
DrBenCarson 2y ago
Are you measuring your vitals during sleep with a watch or a ring? Might not be affecting your ability to fall asleep but hard to imagine it does nothing to your brain or heart while you’re unconscious
aitchnyu 2y ago
Whoa, the plant in my aquarium is the same in the TV jingle "for memory and intelligence, Santhosh brahmi" for the Ayurvedic supplement?

meindnoch 2y ago

When I took omega-3 in addition to duloxetine, I got terrible brain zaps the whole day.

scellus 2y ago
That's interesting, zaps are a withdrawal syndrome of SSRIs (and duloxetine).
- meindnoch 2y ago
  Yep. That's where I knew brain zaps from, because I previously experienced them when coming off SSRIs.
  - seper8 2y ago
    I had them after an accidental too big MDMA dose, after which I felt depressed for a few weeks.
- olyjohn 2y ago
  Buspirone (an anti-anxiety) gave me brain zaps within an hour of taking it. Didn't seem to help with the anxiety at all though...

dukeofdoom 2y ago

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fredgrott 2y ago

It should not be title Omega-3! The article clearly States Omega-3, 8, and Omega-9!

bookofbiden 2y ago

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hereme888 2y ago

Why are we still looking at mice studies for such a human-used substance? This study used EPA: 0.55 mg/kg/day, and DHA: 0.55 mg/kg/day. Among the largest I've heard in human studies are things like 4,400mg EPA and 2,200mg DHA. Examine.com is one of the best resources to understand what evidence shows about supplements. EPA appears to be the component that works for depression. Also, important these days, is the quality: it should be filtered from heavy metals, and processed and stored in a way that avoids it going rancid by the time you consume it. I strongly believe in the benefits of having a higher omega-3:omega-6 ratio than is common nowadays.

mattnewton 2y ago
> Once the behavioral tests were completed, the mice were killed, and their blood and tissues were analyzed to assess the biological effects of stress and omega-3 supplementation. I think they are trying to show biological causes by carefully controlling the mice’s entire life and then cracking them open at the end of the study. Can’t really do that with humans.
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ahallock 2y ago
You have to be careful with such high doses over a long period of time. It can cause heart arrhythmia.

genewitch 2y ago

There's a study about omega3 supplementation that says that if children in a family supplement it, that the parents have a better relationship, even if they don't supplement. I can probably dig it out, given enough time with a search engine. Another one is D. over the course of three years i managed to help my wife get above 100ng/ml 25-hydroxy-D on a blood test. Of course every doctor called and said "too high" and her Calcium is too high too, but not from the D3, folks, because she takes K2 Mk7. Her calcium is high because she mostly drinks fortified orange juice and was taking 1200mg calcium per day at the direction of her oncologist. She has a lot of chronic issues and we're slowly trying to mitigate everything possible with diet and supplements. The specialist said "stop calcium immediately" and "reduce D for 1 month" only. for those aware her Ca was 10.9 ("good" range is ~9.0 - 10.2). I guarantee that her calcium will go back to normal because of the K2 between now and her next blood panel. note: they don't actually test D levels unless you ask, in general. One might wonder why that is - i know i certainly do. In fact, i was just about to go to the pharmacy to get Omega-3 supplements when i saw this post. Her chart shows that she must supplement omega 3, since she won't eat baked salmon. My kid already has vitamins with omegas in them. What i recommend is actually reading studies - completely - and if you have any questions or doubts, befriend researchers in biology or other life sciences that can skim the paper and tell you "meh" or "hey that's cool". Studies contradict, studies may have bad inputs or methodology, the only way to know for sure is to read as many as you can as thoroughly as you can, and if possible, consult experts. Medical doctors of the "PCP" persuasion are not experts, generally.

eightysixfour 2y ago
You could just pay for an examine.com subscription. That’s pretty much what they offer as a service - third party evaluation of studies to provide unbiased advice for different supplements.

ilius2 2y ago

All omega-3 supplements are probably somewhat rancid and possibly harmful, specially in solid / pill form! I personally take cod liver oil (liquid) from a reputable brand, but I still don't %100 trust it to be healthy. It's much better to eat fatty fish or actual cod liver.

alihm 2y ago
Can you say which brand? And what research have you found on them? I also do the same and just wonder if they actually work or not
- ilius2 2y ago
  EuRho Vital. Didn't find any research on it, but many doctors/dietitians I follow on YouTube said cod liver oil is better than pills. What do you use?

byyoung3 2y ago

This isn’t new.

martin82 2y ago

Eating only eggs, beef, fish, olive oil, greek yogurt, blueberries, walnuts and some cheese and dark leafy greens can do the same.