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>need to talk about the vanity attraction of a future all electric Porsche Future? You can buy an all-electric Porsche Taycan since 2019 - and it’s faster than

>need to talk about the vanity attraction of a future all electric Porsche Future? You can buy an all-electric Porsche Taycan since 2019 - and it’s faster than the 911. Sports cars are fully adopting electrification, due to the huge torque numbers and high scalability. M-B and BMW of course, but also Porsche and soon to be Ferrari. It’s not just hybrids used for a boost (as in the decade past): those are full electrics.

mrangle 2y ago
What's your point? Future or now, my point about vanity remains. I don't see any point in arguing over my use of the word "future" here. Again, "faster" isn't the most important metric for car enthusiasts. Which is what I described in my post. I know that's disappointing to people who would like it to be in order to claim total justification for electric motors. To say that "sports cars are fully adopting electrification" seems to want to imply that sports cars are moving mostly to full electrification. This isn't remotely true. Their customer base wouldn't stand for it.
- dangsux 2y ago
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- grvdrm 2y ago
  Under-appreciated point you make: not about speed. I own a 2014 Boxster S. 315 hp, 266 lb/ft torque, 6-speed. It is NOT the fastest car out there. In fact I own an automatic 3-series BMW that's faster in a straight line every time. But the Boxster is under 3k pounds curb weight. It is laser-precise on the road. And it sounds glorious, especially with sport exhaust. I'm often driving between 20-35 mph in second gear because it's the best day-to-day way to hear the engine's sounds. Otherwise, there are people out there buying 911s/etc. because they can rather than because they care, and those people don't care that Porsche is moving sports cars to hybrid, or less interested in putting manuals in their cars. But lots of us still want the pure sports experience.
  - mrangle 2y ago
    Enthusiast bliss is a revved out manual in a flyweight car on a curvy road. Likely in low gear and at lower speed: in the range that you cited. While I admit its severely wanting and the car will suffer for the abuse on the turns, I can get the edge of that feeling in an old Corolla simply due to the weight and connectedness. While the much faster and newer luxury cars are numb (yet have their place for commuting and highway driving). It's why older (inherently bare bones) Lotus's are still $50k, ancient Honda S2000's are $20k, and new Miata's approach new base trim SUV prices. It's why you love your Porsche. And it's why a new Porsche GTS4 Rs (double clutch aside) sells for $100k over sticker new or used, is $100k over the cheapest comparable McLaren in the used market, and why it's very difficult to get one new. Just for example.
brookst 2y ago
Unfortunately, EV’s are incredibly heavy, so “faster” is scoped to straight lines. As soon as you try to wrestle the 2300kg Taycan through twisties, the 1500kg 911 gets faster. And it’s still massively overweight compared to proper sports cars (the 911 is a GT).
okdood64 2y ago
Serious [sports] car enthusiasts don't care about faster; especially not in a straight line. I by no means fall into this category completely, but I much rather have a moderately slower car than an electric, with real engine/intake/exhaust noise that handles well on turns.
- D-Coder 2y ago
  I have never based a car purchasing decision on how much noise the car makes.
consteval 2y ago
> and it’s faster than the 911 Kind of, but not really. It accelerates from 0 faster but that's just about it. I don't think anybody would prefer a Taycan on the track versus a 911, and if you were actually racing them, I think the 911 would win every time.

mrangle 2y ago

What's your point? Future or now, my point about vanity remains. I don't see any point in arguing over my use of the word "future" here. Again, "faster" isn't the most important metric for car enthusiasts. Which is what I described in my post. I know that's disappointing to people who would like it to be in order to claim total justification for electric motors. To say that "sports cars are fully adopting electrification" seems to want to imply that sports cars are moving mostly to full electrification. This isn't remotely true. Their customer base wouldn't stand for it.

dangsux 2y ago
[dead]
grvdrm 2y ago
Under-appreciated point you make: not about speed. I own a 2014 Boxster S. 315 hp, 266 lb/ft torque, 6-speed. It is NOT the fastest car out there. In fact I own an automatic 3-series BMW that's faster in a straight line every time. But the Boxster is under 3k pounds curb weight. It is laser-precise on the road. And it sounds glorious, especially with sport exhaust. I'm often driving between 20-35 mph in second gear because it's the best day-to-day way to hear the engine's sounds. Otherwise, there are people out there buying 911s/etc. because they can rather than because they care, and those people don't care that Porsche is moving sports cars to hybrid, or less interested in putting manuals in their cars. But lots of us still want the pure sports experience.
- mrangle 2y ago
  Enthusiast bliss is a revved out manual in a flyweight car on a curvy road. Likely in low gear and at lower speed: in the range that you cited. While I admit its severely wanting and the car will suffer for the abuse on the turns, I can get the edge of that feeling in an old Corolla simply due to the weight and connectedness. While the much faster and newer luxury cars are numb (yet have their place for commuting and highway driving). It's why older (inherently bare bones) Lotus's are still $50k, ancient Honda S2000's are $20k, and new Miata's approach new base trim SUV prices. It's why you love your Porsche. And it's why a new Porsche GTS4 Rs (double clutch aside) sells for $100k over sticker new or used, is $100k over the cheapest comparable McLaren in the used market, and why it's very difficult to get one new. Just for example.

brookst 2y ago

Unfortunately, EV’s are incredibly heavy, so “faster” is scoped to straight lines. As soon as you try to wrestle the 2300kg Taycan through twisties, the 1500kg 911 gets faster. And it’s still massively overweight compared to proper sports cars (the 911 is a GT).

okdood64 2y ago

Serious [sports] car enthusiasts don't care about faster; especially not in a straight line. I by no means fall into this category completely, but I much rather have a moderately slower car than an electric, with real engine/intake/exhaust noise that handles well on turns.

D-Coder 2y ago
I have never based a car purchasing decision on how much noise the car makes.

consteval 2y ago

> and it’s faster than the 911 Kind of, but not really. It accelerates from 0 faster but that's just about it. I don't think anybody would prefer a Taycan on the track versus a 911, and if you were actually racing them, I think the 911 would win every time.