4 ms·

I guess i am orthogonal to this article because: (A) i don't visit sites that have "Followers" which i can probably afford to do because: (B) unlike writing

I guess i am orthogonal to this article because: (A) i don't visit sites that have "Followers" which i can probably afford to do because: (B) unlike writing or waitservice, where one's market is huge numbers of people who each are only willing to pay a little, my skills interest few, but those few are willing to pay a lot.

deleted 2y ago
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wpietri 2y ago
This is an odd thing to say on a site that depends so heavily on the upvote.
- d0gsg0w00f 2y ago
  It only depends heavily on the up vote if you depend on the up vote. Sometimes it's nice just to formulate thoughts in writing. If others see it, great. If not, no big deal.
  - wpietri 2y ago
    Because upvotes control visibility, you are still describing a reward function that depends on the upvote.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      I think they explicitly said the opposite. That the writing is their reward, and comments are always visible to the author. Visibility to other humans is incidental, or at least a secondary concern.
      - wpietri 2y ago
        They explicitly said, "If others see it, great. If not, no big deal." So I agree they get some reward from the writing. (Like all writers do, and like we can all do just as well with a journal.) But the part I just quoted is clearly part of the reward function, and just as clearly the total reward increases with others seeing it. Which on HN is controlled by upvotes.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        They also said "Sometimes it's nice just to formulate thoughts in writing". "Just" implies sufficient reward. Visibility is a part of the reward function, but it is not dependent on it.
        wpietri 2y ago
        You're using a meaning of "depends on" which I'm unfamiliar with. Where are you getting it from?
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Fair question. I think 'depends' has different connotations if you are talking about a binary outcome or function. If I were to say something like "life depends on water", the connotation is that water is a necessary condition. You wouldn't use depends if the dependency is situational e.g. "life depends on shoes". Shoes might be the difference between life and death in some situations, but irrelevant in others. That is to say, if a factor is a poor predictor of the outcome, but perhaps correlated, depends seems misleading.
        wpietri 2y ago
        Got it. I am talking about a function, and particularly the expected reward function for a behavior. If some factor has no influence on the score, the function does not depend on that factor. If it does, it does. Even in your sense of the term, I think I was correct to say that HN "depends so heavily on the upvote". It's a fundamental constituent of how this place works. But I'd also argue that even in the person I'm replying to later in the chain, it's a reasonable thing to say "describing a reward function that depends on the upvote" with your sense as well. If a person just wants to write, they can write in their journal or type in the reply box and then just close the tab. I do that sometimes here. If they actually click reply, then it's pretty clear their expected value for that involves somebody seeing the text. And the amount of that visibility is strongly determined by the upvote.
ryukoposting 2y ago
> my skills interest few, but those few are willing to pay a lot. We share this privilege. My wife doesn't, though, and she and I have fundamentally different interactions with social media. For her, it's a necessary evil to some extent - the nature of her profession demands that she's tuned into hot trends. That's a visible connection between her profession and her social media relationships. The invisible connections are much harder to identify, and you bring up an interesting point. I can't conceive of a company looking up your instagram account just to see how many followers you have, but maybe that's a thing. I wouldn't know.

deleted 2y ago

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wpietri 2y ago

This is an odd thing to say on a site that depends so heavily on the upvote.

d0gsg0w00f 2y ago
It only depends heavily on the up vote if you depend on the up vote. Sometimes it's nice just to formulate thoughts in writing. If others see it, great. If not, no big deal.
- wpietri 2y ago
  Because upvotes control visibility, you are still describing a reward function that depends on the upvote.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I think they explicitly said the opposite. That the writing is their reward, and comments are always visible to the author. Visibility to other humans is incidental, or at least a secondary concern.
    - wpietri 2y ago
      They explicitly said, "If others see it, great. If not, no big deal." So I agree they get some reward from the writing. (Like all writers do, and like we can all do just as well with a journal.) But the part I just quoted is clearly part of the reward function, and just as clearly the total reward increases with others seeing it. Which on HN is controlled by upvotes.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        They also said "Sometimes it's nice just to formulate thoughts in writing". "Just" implies sufficient reward. Visibility is a part of the reward function, but it is not dependent on it.
        wpietri 2y ago
        You're using a meaning of "depends on" which I'm unfamiliar with. Where are you getting it from?
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Fair question. I think 'depends' has different connotations if you are talking about a binary outcome or function. If I were to say something like "life depends on water", the connotation is that water is a necessary condition. You wouldn't use depends if the dependency is situational e.g. "life depends on shoes". Shoes might be the difference between life and death in some situations, but irrelevant in others. That is to say, if a factor is a poor predictor of the outcome, but perhaps correlated, depends seems misleading.
        wpietri 2y ago
        Got it. I am talking about a function, and particularly the expected reward function for a behavior. If some factor has no influence on the score, the function does not depend on that factor. If it does, it does. Even in your sense of the term, I think I was correct to say that HN "depends so heavily on the upvote". It's a fundamental constituent of how this place works. But I'd also argue that even in the person I'm replying to later in the chain, it's a reasonable thing to say "describing a reward function that depends on the upvote" with your sense as well. If a person just wants to write, they can write in their journal or type in the reply box and then just close the tab. I do that sometimes here. If they actually click reply, then it's pretty clear their expected value for that involves somebody seeing the text. And the amount of that visibility is strongly determined by the upvote.

ryukoposting 2y ago

> my skills interest few, but those few are willing to pay a lot. We share this privilege. My wife doesn't, though, and she and I have fundamentally different interactions with social media. For her, it's a necessary evil to some extent - the nature of her profession demands that she's tuned into hot trends. That's a visible connection between her profession and her social media relationships. The invisible connections are much harder to identify, and you bring up an interesting point. I can't conceive of a company looking up your instagram account just to see how many followers you have, but maybe that's a thing. I wouldn't know.