4 ms·

So spend on that infrastructure instead, or mandate it. Honestly, spending resources on anything ICEs (outside of special industries) in this day and age is jus

So spend on that infrastructure instead, or mandate it. Honestly, spending resources on anything ICEs (outside of special industries) in this day and age is just wrong.

LightBug1 2y ago
They're called sports cars for a reason. They're driven far less than everyday cars. They're fantastic fun. I'm an enviromentalist and I'd still buy an ICE Porsche. No EV has come close ... only the Hyundai ioniq 5 N seems to be looking interesting.
- tonyedgecombe 2y ago
  >I'm an enviromentalist and I'd still buy an ICE Porsche. Environmentalists walk or ride bikes.
  - chromatin 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
    - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
      Where do you draw the line then? If I spend the week jetting across the Atlantic but then take a reusable bag to the supermarket am I an environmentalist?
      - LightBug1 2y ago
        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Extremes https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
        tonyedgecombe 2y ago
        Where do you draw the line then? I'll note I've seen people struggling across the supermarket carpark to avoid buying a plastic bag only to get in a giant SUV. It's a form of moral licensing[1], there is a huge amount of dissonance around environmental issues. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing
        LightBug1 2y ago
        I'll agree on that example. But that's different to what's been discussed in this thread. A sports car, used fairly sparingly for fun, and not a daily driver - is different to the horrible trend of daily driving done via ugly, honkingly big SUV's. There's a line somewhere out there that enables humanity to have fun and not destroy the planet ... probably related to the 80/20 rule.
  - _factor 2y ago
    “I’m a vegetarian, but I’d still scarf down a steak.”
  - tirant 2y ago
    According to whom? I am also an environmentalist and burn some fuel from time to time, I’m not a zealot. For me to operate and support the environment the best I can I also need to be mentally fit and have life enjoinment. And riding my old classic carbureted Triumph helps me with that.
    - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
      According to my dictionary an environmentalist is "a person who is interested in or studies the environment and who tries to protect it from being damaged by human activities". I can't see how buying a Porsche (or any car really) is compatible with that.
      - LightBug1 2y ago
        That's a bit like saying, I'm pro athlete (or even just very health conscious), but going out for a night out with my friends to a fast food joint is not compatible with that.
- hnaccount_rng 2y ago
  What are you looking for? Typically when people say sports car they mean high-torque (and thereby acceleration)... which ... you will not get an ICE motor that gives you similar performance to an electric drive
tirant 2y ago
Fortunately the definition of wrong is very personal. We still have at least 40-50 years of ICE vehicles running on the Earth. Making them even more efficient and cheap is a valuable feat for many millions.
Szpadel 2y ago
I like to compare this to SSD vs HDD. Why even invest in HDD development when SSDs are so much better? Right now almost all consumers use SSDs because they are affordable for space most people need. And I remember how we were transitioning where I bought 128gb drive for cost of 4TB HDD to have super snappy system and I had to manage system much more to not burn writes too quickly (ram drives for logs and temp etc) That where I believe we are right now with EVs. But they are more affordable and have better range every year. But to go further with this comparison we still develop new generations of HDDs even after all that time, even when everyone believe that at some point in the future we will abandon that technology completely

So spend on that infrastructure instead, or mandate it. Honestly, spending resources on anything ICEs (outside of special industries) in this day and age is just wrong.

LightBug1 2y ago

They're called sports cars for a reason. They're driven far less than everyday cars. They're fantastic fun. I'm an enviromentalist and I'd still buy an ICE Porsche. No EV has come close ... only the Hyundai ioniq 5 N seems to be looking interesting.

tonyedgecombe 2y ago
>I'm an enviromentalist and I'd still buy an ICE Porsche. Environmentalists walk or ride bikes.
- chromatin 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
  - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
    Where do you draw the line then? If I spend the week jetting across the Atlantic but then take a reusable bag to the supermarket am I an environmentalist?
    - LightBug1 2y ago
      https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Extremes https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
      - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
        Where do you draw the line then? I'll note I've seen people struggling across the supermarket carpark to avoid buying a plastic bag only to get in a giant SUV. It's a form of moral licensing[1], there is a huge amount of dissonance around environmental issues. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing
        LightBug1 2y ago
        I'll agree on that example. But that's different to what's been discussed in this thread. A sports car, used fairly sparingly for fun, and not a daily driver - is different to the horrible trend of daily driving done via ugly, honkingly big SUV's. There's a line somewhere out there that enables humanity to have fun and not destroy the planet ... probably related to the 80/20 rule.
- _factor 2y ago
  “I’m a vegetarian, but I’d still scarf down a steak.”
- tirant 2y ago
  According to whom? I am also an environmentalist and burn some fuel from time to time, I’m not a zealot. For me to operate and support the environment the best I can I also need to be mentally fit and have life enjoinment. And riding my old classic carbureted Triumph helps me with that.
  - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
    According to my dictionary an environmentalist is "a person who is interested in or studies the environment and who tries to protect it from being damaged by human activities". I can't see how buying a Porsche (or any car really) is compatible with that.
    - LightBug1 2y ago
      That's a bit like saying, I'm pro athlete (or even just very health conscious), but going out for a night out with my friends to a fast food joint is not compatible with that.
hnaccount_rng 2y ago
What are you looking for? Typically when people say sports car they mean high-torque (and thereby acceleration)... which ... you will not get an ICE motor that gives you similar performance to an electric drive

tirant 2y ago

Fortunately the definition of wrong is very personal. We still have at least 40-50 years of ICE vehicles running on the Earth. Making them even more efficient and cheap is a valuable feat for many millions.

Szpadel 2y ago

I like to compare this to SSD vs HDD. Why even invest in HDD development when SSDs are so much better? Right now almost all consumers use SSDs because they are affordable for space most people need. And I remember how we were transitioning where I bought 128gb drive for cost of 4TB HDD to have super snappy system and I had to manage system much more to not burn writes too quickly (ram drives for logs and temp etc) That where I believe we are right now with EVs. But they are more affordable and have better range every year. But to go further with this comparison we still develop new generations of HDDs even after all that time, even when everyone believe that at some point in the future we will abandon that technology completely