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>It's not a "minor inconvenience" at all. What's your solution? This kind of satellite system is going to get built and improved over time regardless of what y

>It's not a "minor inconvenience" at all. What's your solution? This kind of satellite system is going to get built and improved over time regardless of what you think of it. >It's more due to Musk lying and not delivering. No, it's not. I think you know it too. Biden and a bunch of EU politicians have literally threatened Elon over Twitter, as recently as last month. Everyone was cool with his hype game until they cashed out and/or discovered that Elon has the views of a liberal from about 2010. Let's look at Elon's accomplishments objectively. He oversaw a new and inexpensive reusable rocket program, cutting-edge electric cars which libs begged for, solar systems for houses, and satellite internet. Not to mention his original online payment system in the early days. All of those projects are very competitive and widely used. Did he promise more? Sure, he did. But he also delivered more than any of the naysayers. I have some sympathy for a man trying to do what was considered impossible, like developing autonomous taxis.

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
The 2nd generation of starlink satellites is worse than the first one: they leak radio spectrum energy at a massively higher level than the 1st generation. Why have sympathy for anyone trying to do something stupid? Why do we need autonomous taxis? What problem is this solving, other than helping the already richer get a bit richer?
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  IMO the Starlink interference problem is being overblown to spite Elon for political reasons. In any case, satellites have long existed and other countries are going to build their own version of Starlink with the same problems. If they don't have the same problems then presumably Starlink will learn from them. There are other satellites made to observe stuff from space, and maybe the new SpaceX rockets will facilitate radioastronomy stations built on the dark side of the moon (if that's even important enough to build). I actually don't want autonomous taxis or autonomous vehicles in general but some people do. When new technology is developed, usually most people experience benefits. It makes sense for some of the spoils to go to investors. Stop hating on people who make money. They are what funds everyone's pensions after all.
  - defrost 2y ago
    > IMO the Starlink interference problem is being overblown to spite Elon for political reasons. That's your opinion. It's wrong. There is a list of papers as long as an arm going back to the start of Starlink that measure the noise spectrum and point out exactly why it's a real problem for pre existing programs that have had billions invested in new science programs. There are proposed work arounds which have been ignored.
    - wakawaka28 2y ago
      >That's your opinion. It's wrong. Unless you are actively working on this issue I will consider your opinion no more valid than mine. There may be papers about the issue but that does not in itself prove how bad the issue is. I don't have time to find and read "a list of papers as long as an arm" anyway and I would bet good money that you didn't read them either. >There are proposed work arounds which have been ignored. Do you know if there is a legitimate technical reason why those might not have been implemented? Will any of those billions going to radio astronomy go toward reengineering the technical marvel that is Starlink? Doesn't the FCC inspect and approve all of our privately-owned satellites? I'm not an astronomer or a rocket scientist but it seems to me that emitting continuous "noise" aka a radio signal is fundamental to the operation of satellite internet on such a scale. You don't have to respond with another pompous "Nah uh" because I don't care anymore.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    > Stop hating on people who make money. They are what funds everyone's pensions after all. I was the 2nd employee at Amazon. It's not like I hate people who make money. And people making money is not what funds everyone's pensions, other than in some glib 8th grade sort of way. Do feel free to continue on with your defense of incredibly rich people who don't actually give a damn about any of the things you do and do not need your assistance.
defrost 2y ago
>> It's not a "minor inconvenience" at all. > What's your solution? This kind of satellite system is going to get built and improved over time regardless of what you think of it. So you've reversed your " opinion " and tacitly admitted it's more than a a minor inconvenience then? As I outlined above the solution proposed was that the Ver 2.0 sats be better shielded and set to turn off over Radio Quiet Zones such as the Murchison as discussed and agreed to when this was raised some years back. >> It's more due to Musk lying and not delivering. > No, it's not. Yes. It is. At least so far as the radio telescope community and this Starlink issue is concerned. He made promises and didn't keep them. > Biden and a bunch of EU politicians ... Has nothing to do with Starlink noise. > Let's look at Elon's accomplishments objectively. Sure. He promised to fix Starlink noise. He did not. He delivered a Ver 2.0 that's noisier than the the first. He promised Full Self Driving cars "next year" for a decade. Still hasn't happened.
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  >So you've reversed your " opinion " and tacitly admitted it's more than a a minor inconvenience then? No I didn't. I heard about some noise a long time ago and it did not sound like a devastating development. I am merely putting forward a conditional argument: If the noise is a problem, then the problem will likely affect other satellites which are already being built. In any case I expect the problem to be solved. >Yes. It is. At least so far as the radio telescope community and this Starlink issue is concerned. He made promises and didn't keep them. I was not aware of these promises. Without context I cannot say whether he had a legitimate reason to not implement that proposed solution. Can you at least admit there might be a technical reason for it to not be done? >he promised[...] He does tend to promise more than he delivers but nobody has delivered better satellite internet, EVs, or autonomous driving to the public. Your gripes are extremely uncharitable. Again I must point out that Elon's habit of overhyping things was well-tolerated by all for years, until he revealed views slightly to the right of the most extreme leftists and questioned their pet issues. Then the media and all liberals acted like he's the devil. I have a coworker who has been affected by this propaganda campaign. He is extremely environmentally conscious, yet refuses to buy anything from an Elon company. He will not buy a Tesla despite the fact they are practically the best and most proven EVs on the market. Instead he bought a Leaf or something, which is objectively worse than a Tesla. This mentality is totally irrational and I would say un-American. But this bad attitude is common, unfortunately.

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago

The 2nd generation of starlink satellites is worse than the first one: they leak radio spectrum energy at a massively higher level than the 1st generation. Why have sympathy for anyone trying to do something stupid? Why do we need autonomous taxis? What problem is this solving, other than helping the already richer get a bit richer?

wakawaka28 2y ago
IMO the Starlink interference problem is being overblown to spite Elon for political reasons. In any case, satellites have long existed and other countries are going to build their own version of Starlink with the same problems. If they don't have the same problems then presumably Starlink will learn from them. There are other satellites made to observe stuff from space, and maybe the new SpaceX rockets will facilitate radioastronomy stations built on the dark side of the moon (if that's even important enough to build). I actually don't want autonomous taxis or autonomous vehicles in general but some people do. When new technology is developed, usually most people experience benefits. It makes sense for some of the spoils to go to investors. Stop hating on people who make money. They are what funds everyone's pensions after all.
- defrost 2y ago
  > IMO the Starlink interference problem is being overblown to spite Elon for political reasons. That's your opinion. It's wrong. There is a list of papers as long as an arm going back to the start of Starlink that measure the noise spectrum and point out exactly why it's a real problem for pre existing programs that have had billions invested in new science programs. There are proposed work arounds which have been ignored.
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    >That's your opinion. It's wrong. Unless you are actively working on this issue I will consider your opinion no more valid than mine. There may be papers about the issue but that does not in itself prove how bad the issue is. I don't have time to find and read "a list of papers as long as an arm" anyway and I would bet good money that you didn't read them either. >There are proposed work arounds which have been ignored. Do you know if there is a legitimate technical reason why those might not have been implemented? Will any of those billions going to radio astronomy go toward reengineering the technical marvel that is Starlink? Doesn't the FCC inspect and approve all of our privately-owned satellites? I'm not an astronomer or a rocket scientist but it seems to me that emitting continuous "noise" aka a radio signal is fundamental to the operation of satellite internet on such a scale. You don't have to respond with another pompous "Nah uh" because I don't care anymore.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  > Stop hating on people who make money. They are what funds everyone's pensions after all. I was the 2nd employee at Amazon. It's not like I hate people who make money. And people making money is not what funds everyone's pensions, other than in some glib 8th grade sort of way. Do feel free to continue on with your defense of incredibly rich people who don't actually give a damn about any of the things you do and do not need your assistance.

defrost 2y ago

>> It's not a "minor inconvenience" at all. > What's your solution? This kind of satellite system is going to get built and improved over time regardless of what you think of it. So you've reversed your " opinion " and tacitly admitted it's more than a a minor inconvenience then? As I outlined above the solution proposed was that the Ver 2.0 sats be better shielded and set to turn off over Radio Quiet Zones such as the Murchison as discussed and agreed to when this was raised some years back. >> It's more due to Musk lying and not delivering. > No, it's not. Yes. It is. At least so far as the radio telescope community and this Starlink issue is concerned. He made promises and didn't keep them. > Biden and a bunch of EU politicians ... Has nothing to do with Starlink noise. > Let's look at Elon's accomplishments objectively. Sure. He promised to fix Starlink noise. He did not. He delivered a Ver 2.0 that's noisier than the the first. He promised Full Self Driving cars "next year" for a decade. Still hasn't happened.

wakawaka28 2y ago
>So you've reversed your " opinion " and tacitly admitted it's more than a a minor inconvenience then? No I didn't. I heard about some noise a long time ago and it did not sound like a devastating development. I am merely putting forward a conditional argument: If the noise is a problem, then the problem will likely affect other satellites which are already being built. In any case I expect the problem to be solved. >Yes. It is. At least so far as the radio telescope community and this Starlink issue is concerned. He made promises and didn't keep them. I was not aware of these promises. Without context I cannot say whether he had a legitimate reason to not implement that proposed solution. Can you at least admit there might be a technical reason for it to not be done? >he promised[...] He does tend to promise more than he delivers but nobody has delivered better satellite internet, EVs, or autonomous driving to the public. Your gripes are extremely uncharitable. Again I must point out that Elon's habit of overhyping things was well-tolerated by all for years, until he revealed views slightly to the right of the most extreme leftists and questioned their pet issues. Then the media and all liberals acted like he's the devil. I have a coworker who has been affected by this propaganda campaign. He is extremely environmentally conscious, yet refuses to buy anything from an Elon company. He will not buy a Tesla despite the fact they are practically the best and most proven EVs on the market. Instead he bought a Leaf or something, which is objectively worse than a Tesla. This mentality is totally irrational and I would say un-American. But this bad attitude is common, unfortunately.