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> People build bonds in person in a different way than online I see you said "different", which I agree with. But you didn't say "better" - and I do feel that'

> People build bonds in person in a different way than online I see you said "different", which I agree with. But you didn't say "better" - and I do feel that's a mix that goes both sides.

ratmeadow 2y ago
From my own experience at a hybrid company, sample size 1, there's a marked difference in interaction between me and other devs when we meet in person. It's basically like I don't exist and am worth 0 to them before we've met in person. After meeting, even if only briefly, it's completely different: suddenly they respond to messages, are willing to help with questions, even willing to prioritise work if I ask. Now this could be for various reasons - company culture, me being a juniorish dev, confirmation bias. But it really seems like humans don't account value to something/someone unless they interact with it in person. Personally I am completely for remote work, although I think it's wrong to say it's strictly better for everyone in every scenario.
- viraptor 2y ago
  Have you tried to schedule some video calls for lunch / banter / get to know each other time? They can do magic too. In my experience it's about taking the time to actually chat to each other when you both have time, not about the presence.
  - brailsafe 2y ago
    This sounds like the difference between going to a singles event to try and meet people instead of just bumping into them where you already are. One is much more likely to actually form something substantial, even though I'm hugely in-favor of focusing social time on doing this outside of work, it's important to have some level of that with coworkers I'd think.
  - ratmeadow 2y ago
    Video calls do work to some extent, true. Just having some form of rapport with someone helps. However, I think there are some downsides to calls: - The person has to agree to the call (tricky if they are already not responding and/or are more senior and/or dislike meetings) - Calls often seem to have a lesser effect than in-person - Plus other standard downsides of Zoom, etc. In comparison, taking 2 minutes to walk up to someone's desk and directly address them is almost like a magic trick. Instant "pay attention to me now", thanks to the evolved human brain. Now maybe overall not worth the tradeoff for in-office vs remote, but still I appreciate in-office's effectiveness here.
tyre 2y ago
I didn’t say ‘better’ because it’s a value judgement and personal preference. Some people are very anxious about working in person and remote work is the balance they’re looking for. We work a certain way and make trade-offs as best we can. It doesn’t work for everyone, and that’s okay—non-judgmentally in a completely values-independent way. In my opinion, startups are really hard if you take them seriously and an in-person aspect helps. There are exceptions, especially if you’re working with people you already know irl (like during COVID) or have worked with a while. It’s not black and white.

> People build bonds in person in a different way than online I see you said "different", which I agree with. But you didn't say "better" - and I do feel that's a mix that goes both sides.

ratmeadow 2y ago

From my own experience at a hybrid company, sample size 1, there's a marked difference in interaction between me and other devs when we meet in person. It's basically like I don't exist and am worth 0 to them before we've met in person. After meeting, even if only briefly, it's completely different: suddenly they respond to messages, are willing to help with questions, even willing to prioritise work if I ask. Now this could be for various reasons - company culture, me being a juniorish dev, confirmation bias. But it really seems like humans don't account value to something/someone unless they interact with it in person. Personally I am completely for remote work, although I think it's wrong to say it's strictly better for everyone in every scenario.

viraptor 2y ago
Have you tried to schedule some video calls for lunch / banter / get to know each other time? They can do magic too. In my experience it's about taking the time to actually chat to each other when you both have time, not about the presence.
- brailsafe 2y ago
  This sounds like the difference between going to a singles event to try and meet people instead of just bumping into them where you already are. One is much more likely to actually form something substantial, even though I'm hugely in-favor of focusing social time on doing this outside of work, it's important to have some level of that with coworkers I'd think.
- ratmeadow 2y ago
  Video calls do work to some extent, true. Just having some form of rapport with someone helps. However, I think there are some downsides to calls: - The person has to agree to the call (tricky if they are already not responding and/or are more senior and/or dislike meetings) - Calls often seem to have a lesser effect than in-person - Plus other standard downsides of Zoom, etc. In comparison, taking 2 minutes to walk up to someone's desk and directly address them is almost like a magic trick. Instant "pay attention to me now", thanks to the evolved human brain. Now maybe overall not worth the tradeoff for in-office vs remote, but still I appreciate in-office's effectiveness here.

tyre 2y ago

I didn’t say ‘better’ because it’s a value judgement and personal preference. Some people are very anxious about working in person and remote work is the balance they’re looking for. We work a certain way and make trade-offs as best we can. It doesn’t work for everyone, and that’s okay—non-judgmentally in a completely values-independent way. In my opinion, startups are really hard if you take them seriously and an in-person aspect helps. There are exceptions, especially if you’re working with people you already know irl (like during COVID) or have worked with a while. It’s not black and white.