4 ms·

If you’re on macOS, then Orbstack is a nice alternative to Docker Desktop (I’m not affiliated with Orbstack)

by hnlmorg 2y ago

cweagans 2y ago
Another enthusiastic +1 for OrbStack. It's fantastic.
- throwanem 2y ago
  GPU support would be a real benefit, but for anything not needing that, Orbstack's become my strong preference.
  - cweagans 2y ago
    Is there anything you can actually _do_ with the Apple GPUs outside of macOS? I know the Asahi Linux person was working on a driver for it, but is it in a useful state?
    - rahen 2y ago
      Yes. In fact it's accelerated and supports OpenGL 4.6 while macOS tops at OpenGL 4.1, and really mostly only supports Metal nowadays. With Asahi you can use OpenGL and Vulkan. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/asahi-linux-projects-opengl-support-on-apple-silicon-officially-surpasses-apples/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/asahi-linux-projects...
      - cweagans 2y ago
        Oh neat! Thanks for the tip!
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
alexandre_m 2y ago
It's nice, but only for personal use. Be aware that you need a license if you use it at work.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  As is true with a lot of developer tooling. Including Docker Desktop itself.
corytheboyd 2y ago
I would love to use it but I loathe subscriptions, especially for something I’d need work to pay for. I would happily pay a one-time $50-100 and get a perpetual license so I don’t have to deal with the headache…
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  IMO if Docker is important to you then Orbstack is worth it. The debug shell feature alone makes it better than any alternative, and hopefully that subscription money is put towards more unique features. https://docs.orbstack.dev/features/debug https://docs.orbstack.dev/features/debug
  - 1oooqooq 2y ago
    if i understood that page, debug shell is... "exec" with a nicer .bashprofile and injected text editor binary???
    - huimang 2y ago
      It's an alternative to https://docs.docker.com/reference/cli/docker/debug/ https://docs.docker.com/reference/cli/docker/debug/, which is also a paid feature. Debugging slim or distroless images is quite the pain, so a tool like this is worth it if you're frequently working on such images.
    - tanduv 2y ago
      It's installing additional packages which may not have been included in your base image. > Debug Shell works by injecting a debugging environment using: > NixOS for a large package collection, and flexibility with filesystem paths https://orbstack.dev/blog/debug-shell?utm_source=relnotes https://orbstack.dev/blog/debug-shell?utm_source=relnotes
swyx 2y ago
colima is also good https://www.swyx.io/running-docker-without-docker-desktop https://www.swyx.io/running-docker-without-docker-desktop also no affiliation and have not tried orbstack
- comprev 2y ago
  Colima has been great to support x86 images on Apple Silicon like OracleDB 19, instead of building arm64 images. The flexibility of container runtimes and host architecture (via QEMU) has proven useful.
  - lanstin 2y ago
    Yeah, I use this to support extremely old C++ project on x86_64 docker images and it's tolerable if not speedy.
- istoica 2y ago
  Colima offers the best experience for docker alternative. LIMA offers the equivalent of WSL, where both docker and podman are supported. I like LIMA a lot as I deal with both, but COLIMA rocks for simplicity. I think COLIMA + Container Desktop are perfect replacement on mac for traditional Docker Desktop users.
bdcravens 2y ago
Switched to it, and paid for the license. I agree with others about not wanting to get subcriptioned to death, but I feel like it's worth $8/month. I've also used Colima, and if Orbstack wasn't an option, I'd be happy to keep using it.
renewiltord 2y ago
Orbstack is wicked good. I love it. I compile to 4 platforms with it (Ubuntu/Mac x x86_64/arm) and it's the fastest emu/docker thing.
- rahen 2y ago
  Of course Orbstack is fast, it uses LXD, not actual VMs. In fact, Orbstack on Mac is what made me switch to LXD (Incus) on Linux to replace Docker and virt-manager.
  - cstrahan 2y ago
    Wrong, Orbstack does use VMs. https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture > OrbStack uses a lightweight Linux virtual machine with a shared kernel to minimize overhead and save resources, similar to WSL 2 (Windows Subsystem for Linux).
    - rahen 2y ago
      No. It uses a VM to virtualize a Linux kernel running LXD containers. Those are not virtual machines. https://github.com/orbstack/orbstack/issues/461#issuecomment-1643507209 https://github.com/orbstack/orbstack/issues/461#issuecomment...
      - cstrahan 2y ago
        The VM you just referred to is a virtual machine, that’s what VM stands for. I think you forgot how this thread got started: > If you’re on macOS, then Orbstack is a nice alternative to Docker Desktop We’re talking about running OCI (“Docker compatible”) images. The page you just linked to makes it apparent that you are talking about something orthogonal: OrbStack’s “machines” feature (https://docs.orbstack.dev/machines/ https://docs.orbstack.dev/machines/). The original topic is that OrbStack’s support for Docker containers is fast (implied: faster than Docker for Desktop), which cannot be explained by the lack of a VM, as both use a Linux VM to run one or more Docker containers.
      - 2y ago

If you’re on macOS, then Orbstack is a nice alternative to Docker Desktop (I’m not affiliated with Orbstack)

cweagans 2y ago

Another enthusiastic +1 for OrbStack. It's fantastic.

throwanem 2y ago
GPU support would be a real benefit, but for anything not needing that, Orbstack's become my strong preference.
- cweagans 2y ago
  Is there anything you can actually _do_ with the Apple GPUs outside of macOS? I know the Asahi Linux person was working on a driver for it, but is it in a useful state?
  - rahen 2y ago
    Yes. In fact it's accelerated and supports OpenGL 4.6 while macOS tops at OpenGL 4.1, and really mostly only supports Metal nowadays. With Asahi you can use OpenGL and Vulkan. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/asahi-linux-projects-opengl-support-on-apple-silicon-officially-surpasses-apples/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/asahi-linux-projects...
    - cweagans 2y ago
      Oh neat! Thanks for the tip!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

alexandre_m 2y ago

It's nice, but only for personal use. Be aware that you need a license if you use it at work.

hnlmorg 2y ago
As is true with a lot of developer tooling. Including Docker Desktop itself.

corytheboyd 2y ago

I would love to use it but I loathe subscriptions, especially for something I’d need work to pay for. I would happily pay a one-time $50-100 and get a perpetual license so I don’t have to deal with the headache…

shepherdjerred 2y ago
IMO if Docker is important to you then Orbstack is worth it. The debug shell feature alone makes it better than any alternative, and hopefully that subscription money is put towards more unique features. https://docs.orbstack.dev/features/debug https://docs.orbstack.dev/features/debug
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  if i understood that page, debug shell is... "exec" with a nicer .bashprofile and injected text editor binary???
  - huimang 2y ago
    It's an alternative to https://docs.docker.com/reference/cli/docker/debug/ https://docs.docker.com/reference/cli/docker/debug/, which is also a paid feature. Debugging slim or distroless images is quite the pain, so a tool like this is worth it if you're frequently working on such images.
  - tanduv 2y ago
    It's installing additional packages which may not have been included in your base image. > Debug Shell works by injecting a debugging environment using: > NixOS for a large package collection, and flexibility with filesystem paths https://orbstack.dev/blog/debug-shell?utm_source=relnotes https://orbstack.dev/blog/debug-shell?utm_source=relnotes

swyx 2y ago

colima is also good https://www.swyx.io/running-docker-without-docker-desktop https://www.swyx.io/running-docker-without-docker-desktop also no affiliation and have not tried orbstack

comprev 2y ago
Colima has been great to support x86 images on Apple Silicon like OracleDB 19, instead of building arm64 images. The flexibility of container runtimes and host architecture (via QEMU) has proven useful.
- lanstin 2y ago
  Yeah, I use this to support extremely old C++ project on x86_64 docker images and it's tolerable if not speedy.
istoica 2y ago
Colima offers the best experience for docker alternative. LIMA offers the equivalent of WSL, where both docker and podman are supported. I like LIMA a lot as I deal with both, but COLIMA rocks for simplicity. I think COLIMA + Container Desktop are perfect replacement on mac for traditional Docker Desktop users.

bdcravens 2y ago

Switched to it, and paid for the license. I agree with others about not wanting to get subcriptioned to death, but I feel like it's worth $8/month. I've also used Colima, and if Orbstack wasn't an option, I'd be happy to keep using it.

renewiltord 2y ago

Orbstack is wicked good. I love it. I compile to 4 platforms with it (Ubuntu/Mac x x86_64/arm) and it's the fastest emu/docker thing.

rahen 2y ago
Of course Orbstack is fast, it uses LXD, not actual VMs. In fact, Orbstack on Mac is what made me switch to LXD (Incus) on Linux to replace Docker and virt-manager.
- cstrahan 2y ago
  Wrong, Orbstack does use VMs. https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture https://docs.orbstack.dev/architecture > OrbStack uses a lightweight Linux virtual machine with a shared kernel to minimize overhead and save resources, similar to WSL 2 (Windows Subsystem for Linux).
  - rahen 2y ago
    No. It uses a VM to virtualize a Linux kernel running LXD containers. Those are not virtual machines. https://github.com/orbstack/orbstack/issues/461#issuecomment-1643507209 https://github.com/orbstack/orbstack/issues/461#issuecomment...
    - cstrahan 2y ago
      The VM you just referred to is a virtual machine, that’s what VM stands for. I think you forgot how this thread got started: > If you’re on macOS, then Orbstack is a nice alternative to Docker Desktop We’re talking about running OCI (“Docker compatible”) images. The page you just linked to makes it apparent that you are talking about something orthogonal: OrbStack’s “machines” feature (https://docs.orbstack.dev/machines/ https://docs.orbstack.dev/machines/). The original topic is that OrbStack’s support for Docker containers is fast (implied: faster than Docker for Desktop), which cannot be explained by the lack of a VM, as both use a Linux VM to run one or more Docker containers.
    - 2y ago