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It is somewhat alarming that almost no developed economy seems to be capable of having a balanced budget. Maybe it is an aftereffect of aging and bad birth rate

It is somewhat alarming that almost no developed economy seems to be capable of having a balanced budget. Maybe it is an aftereffect of aging and bad birth rates - slow erosion of the taxpayer base. Given that debt cannot grow to infinity, something will give way one day.

tharmas 2y ago
Or Neoliberalism. Trickle down economics. How rich are the rich now compared to the 1960s?
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly...
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  We can also pick other moments in time, such as the 1910s ... Or we can look at the bigger picture. Countries vary a lot by their taxation rate, but it seems to have no correlation to their debt levels. It seems that you can always spend a lot more than what you have in hand. The demand for public money is insatiable.
  - tharmas 2y ago
    A big problem i see is how people are taxed. Not enough tax is collected on asset accumulation and too much is collected productive activities. And look at the madness of housing benefit. The taxpayer tops up a low income person's rent. This is essentially taxpayer subsidy of landlords. No wonder a large number of MPs are landlords. But i agree that govt is far too large.
oceanplexian 2y ago
An economy does not have a “budget” and I hate hearing this comparison. The banks have the ability to print and redefine the meaning of money, therefore whatever you think the budget should or should not be is irrelevant.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  It is meant as a metaphor for "a country with a developed economy". "whatever you think the budget should or should not be is irrelevant." Wow, that is an aggressive formulation. Most Western central banks are independent of their governments and don't routinely go on money-printing sprees. Given that with a larger debt, an ever rising portion of the budget goes towards interest payments, I certainly feel that the public debt is relevant for me. Money spent on interest cannot be spent on public goods which I and others would like to use.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  All right, forget about a budget. In fact, even forget about money. Money isn't all that real; the real economy is about stuff. The economy has a maximum capacity for a given set of workers, resources, and technology. The basic economic question is, which stuff is going to be produced, and where is it going to go? Who's going to get it, and what are they going to do with it? In a market economy, we use money to organize and manage that. But if we print more money, that doesn't create any more stuff at all. If the government is printing more money, two things are happening: The government is buying more of the stuff that's being produced, and the price of stuff is going up (because there's more money chasing the same amount of stuff). That means that everybody who's not the government is getting less of the stuff. Now, that can be fine, if the government is doing things with the stuff that are going to pay society back down the road. If not, though, the government is just using up more stuff, leaving everybody else with less stuff, and causing inflation into the bargain. So the question is: What made up that debt of 100% of GDP? Was it good investments that are going to pay the UK back? Or was it just waste?
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  What do you think a "budget" is? It is simply a spending plan developed by humans. Of course they exist. There can be real world consequences for having a bad budget. What exactly are you trying to say?
TimedToasts 2y ago
There's really no limit to the public's willingness to vote for politicians who overspend (at least in the USA) so we'll find out soon enough how high our debt can go. :(
bryanlarsen 2y ago
Remember that money is debt. If the government is in debt, it means that the balance of money in the rest of the economy is positive. Government debt is a key part of making sure there's adequate money in the economy. Without adequate money to lubricate an economy, really bad things happen.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  The holders of debt obligations are not necessarily the same as the debt interest. I can loan you $100, at 200% interest. We will expand the economy. Good for me and bad for you. If that is a net benefit at the end of the day remains to be seen.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    "net benefit at the end of the day" Also, there is always day D+1, when benefits may turn into losses. But perhaps, on that day, the person who made the debt is going to be dead.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      It all comes down to the cost of borrowing and the ROI. This is true for societies as well as individuals.
JSDevOps 2y ago
People these days are absolutely mad. They’ll splash cash on anything without a second thought. They genuinely believe owning a house is an “investment” while they’re leasing a BMW or Audi just to drive to their nail appointments. These are the so-called “urban achievers.” But let’s not kid ourselves—the same hands getting those manicures will be the ones desperately clawing their way out of the financial mess they've created, like a scene out of Silence of the Lambs, begging mum for help with a student loan or parking fine, while the Deliveroo and Uber bills keep piling up. People are utterly reckless and clueless when it comes to money—they haven’t a clue about the value of a pound, and frankly, they couldn’t care less. But they really should. Look at the ones with money to burn—spending on new hair, fresh nails, and a new dress for every wedding, while their partners splash out on another weekend getaway. It’s all a lifestyle choice, no different from the one the Bank of England seems to be celebrating. Same vibe, same level of obliviousness.
- vr46 2y ago
  This seems slightly off-topic, describing solely young women and giving off Daily Mail/Richard Littlejohn vibes. Some people are terrible with money, in a way that bears no resemblance to the way a central bank deals with monetary policy and macroeconomics, so I really don’t understand why you posted this little rant.
piva00 2y ago
Sweden has a debt-to-GDP around 30-35%, Denmark is below 30%.

tharmas 2y ago

Or Neoliberalism. Trickle down economics. How rich are the rich now compared to the 1960s?

toomuchtodo 2y ago
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly...
inglor_cz 2y ago
We can also pick other moments in time, such as the 1910s ... Or we can look at the bigger picture. Countries vary a lot by their taxation rate, but it seems to have no correlation to their debt levels. It seems that you can always spend a lot more than what you have in hand. The demand for public money is insatiable.
- tharmas 2y ago
  A big problem i see is how people are taxed. Not enough tax is collected on asset accumulation and too much is collected productive activities. And look at the madness of housing benefit. The taxpayer tops up a low income person's rent. This is essentially taxpayer subsidy of landlords. No wonder a large number of MPs are landlords. But i agree that govt is far too large.

oceanplexian 2y ago

An economy does not have a “budget” and I hate hearing this comparison. The banks have the ability to print and redefine the meaning of money, therefore whatever you think the budget should or should not be is irrelevant.

inglor_cz 2y ago
It is meant as a metaphor for "a country with a developed economy". "whatever you think the budget should or should not be is irrelevant." Wow, that is an aggressive formulation. Most Western central banks are independent of their governments and don't routinely go on money-printing sprees. Given that with a larger debt, an ever rising portion of the budget goes towards interest payments, I certainly feel that the public debt is relevant for me. Money spent on interest cannot be spent on public goods which I and others would like to use.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
All right, forget about a budget. In fact, even forget about money. Money isn't all that real; the real economy is about stuff. The economy has a maximum capacity for a given set of workers, resources, and technology. The basic economic question is, which stuff is going to be produced, and where is it going to go? Who's going to get it, and what are they going to do with it? In a market economy, we use money to organize and manage that. But if we print more money, that doesn't create any more stuff at all. If the government is printing more money, two things are happening: The government is buying more of the stuff that's being produced, and the price of stuff is going up (because there's more money chasing the same amount of stuff). That means that everybody who's not the government is getting less of the stuff. Now, that can be fine, if the government is doing things with the stuff that are going to pay society back down the road. If not, though, the government is just using up more stuff, leaving everybody else with less stuff, and causing inflation into the bargain. So the question is: What made up that debt of 100% of GDP? Was it good investments that are going to pay the UK back? Or was it just waste?
s1artibartfast 2y ago
What do you think a "budget" is? It is simply a spending plan developed by humans. Of course they exist. There can be real world consequences for having a bad budget. What exactly are you trying to say?

TimedToasts 2y ago

There's really no limit to the public's willingness to vote for politicians who overspend (at least in the USA) so we'll find out soon enough how high our debt can go. :(

bryanlarsen 2y ago

Remember that money is debt. If the government is in debt, it means that the balance of money in the rest of the economy is positive. Government debt is a key part of making sure there's adequate money in the economy. Without adequate money to lubricate an economy, really bad things happen.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
The holders of debt obligations are not necessarily the same as the debt interest. I can loan you $100, at 200% interest. We will expand the economy. Good for me and bad for you. If that is a net benefit at the end of the day remains to be seen.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  "net benefit at the end of the day" Also, there is always day D+1, when benefits may turn into losses. But perhaps, on that day, the person who made the debt is going to be dead.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    It all comes down to the cost of borrowing and the ROI. This is true for societies as well as individuals.

JSDevOps 2y ago

People these days are absolutely mad. They’ll splash cash on anything without a second thought. They genuinely believe owning a house is an “investment” while they’re leasing a BMW or Audi just to drive to their nail appointments. These are the so-called “urban achievers.” But let’s not kid ourselves—the same hands getting those manicures will be the ones desperately clawing their way out of the financial mess they've created, like a scene out of Silence of the Lambs, begging mum for help with a student loan or parking fine, while the Deliveroo and Uber bills keep piling up. People are utterly reckless and clueless when it comes to money—they haven’t a clue about the value of a pound, and frankly, they couldn’t care less. But they really should. Look at the ones with money to burn—spending on new hair, fresh nails, and a new dress for every wedding, while their partners splash out on another weekend getaway. It’s all a lifestyle choice, no different from the one the Bank of England seems to be celebrating. Same vibe, same level of obliviousness.

vr46 2y ago
This seems slightly off-topic, describing solely young women and giving off Daily Mail/Richard Littlejohn vibes. Some people are terrible with money, in a way that bears no resemblance to the way a central bank deals with monetary policy and macroeconomics, so I really don’t understand why you posted this little rant.

piva00 2y ago

Sweden has a debt-to-GDP around 30-35%, Denmark is below 30%.