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That doesn't really help at all. That list is why some people say the US is a socialist country, that Roosevelt was a socialist or communist, etc. For literally

That doesn't really help at all. That list is why some people say the US is a socialist country, that Roosevelt was a socialist or communist, etc. For literally the first DDG example, http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/TenPlanks.html http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/TenPlanks.html . I know they are standard metrics. I don't think they are good metrics due to their built-in assumptions. This thread has nothing to do with "giving them all your money and power means they would make things better for you". My observations were 1) "socialism" is such as broad term as to be meaningless until pinned down - and DonnyV clearly isn't talking about Marxism, and 2) a market economy clearly does not require capitalism as people earned money and had jobs long before there was capitalism or mercantilism, so your connecting the two is not a valid argument. I ask again: Can we attribute the upcoming climate catastrophe to capitalism? If 500 million people die from it, can we say that capitalism caused mass deaths and economic and literal starvation?

dtagames 2y ago
No. And how did we get from history to conjecture? We use oil because it's cheap and comes out of the ground, not because of capitalism. If you could get socialists to volunteer to build and run solar energy systems for free, then we would have those already. Oil also contributed enormously to the rise in the human standard of living everywhere. There is no mass extinction from climate change happening now. Humans survived the ice age. You cannot sell me communism by calling it socialism and appealing to future climate fear. You are absolutely asking for people to give over control and money, as that's exactly what socialism requires. Peace. Out.
- eesmith 2y ago
  > No. So all the good things belong to capitalism and all the bad things are something else. Got it. > We use oil because it's cheap and comes out of the ground, not because of capitalism. Where did the capital come from to build those oil wells? Who funded the security companies, and the lawsuits, and the governments? Why is it that the people most negatively affected happen to also be the ones with the least access to capital? > You cannot sell me communism I'm not. I'm saying to not put blind faith into capitalism, including to imply that a market economy and being paid requires capitalism. But since anything regarded as a negative critique of gung ho capitalism is termed 'socialism' or 'communism' or 'Marxist', ... guess that's what I am.

dtagames 2y ago

No. And how did we get from history to conjecture? We use oil because it's cheap and comes out of the ground, not because of capitalism. If you could get socialists to volunteer to build and run solar energy systems for free, then we would have those already. Oil also contributed enormously to the rise in the human standard of living everywhere. There is no mass extinction from climate change happening now. Humans survived the ice age. You cannot sell me communism by calling it socialism and appealing to future climate fear. You are absolutely asking for people to give over control and money, as that's exactly what socialism requires. Peace. Out.

eesmith 2y ago
> No. So all the good things belong to capitalism and all the bad things are something else. Got it. > We use oil because it's cheap and comes out of the ground, not because of capitalism. Where did the capital come from to build those oil wells? Who funded the security companies, and the lawsuits, and the governments? Why is it that the people most negatively affected happen to also be the ones with the least access to capital? > You cannot sell me communism I'm not. I'm saying to not put blind faith into capitalism, including to imply that a market economy and being paid requires capitalism. But since anything regarded as a negative critique of gung ho capitalism is termed 'socialism' or 'communism' or 'Marxist', ... guess that's what I am.