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The 'crypto ideology' (for lack of a better phrase) of some who completely believed in the power of crypto to change the world and unshackle the masses from the

The 'crypto ideology' (for lack of a better phrase) of some who completely believed in the power of crypto to change the world and unshackle the masses from the tyranny of financial regulations. But then all the scams happened (and keep happening), and many commented how its was like they were speed running the last few hundred years of financial markets in realization that many rules/laws were they for good reason. I don't see this country thing as being any different. More cynically, I see this as a bunch of divas who want to officially be above the law because they feel they are better than that and its only holding back their greatness. They, and they alone, are the only ones smart enough to create utopia.

ETH_start 2y ago
There is no empirical evidence that the laws you're talking about benefit society. Take anti-money laundering laws for example, which have demonstrated no evidence of policy effectiveness: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/25741292.2020.1725366 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/25741292.2020.1... For a more personal look, see how it affects people born in the "wrong country": https://www.reddit.com/r/MakerDAO/s/XYh1ajhP0P https://www.reddit.com/r/MakerDAO/s/XYh1ajhP0P The actual laws that are needed, are those against victimful acts, like fraud, and you don't need the kind of freedom-reducing regulatory restrictions that have become so numerous in recent decades to have anti-fraud laws. Effective enforcement of anti-fraud laws alone would be sufficient to stop the bulk of the scams in the crypto space, and there is nothing inherent to crypto that prevents legal authorities from pursuing those who perpetrate fraud and bringing them to justice. On the plus side, free market competition has fostered innovation and discipline in the crypto space. We've gone from bug-prone smart contracts like the DAO eight years ago to highly secure bluechip DeFi applications like Aave, Uniswap, Compound and MakerDAO surviving completely unscathed in the last crypto crash. Scams still abound unfortunately, and I believe that will only subside once people at large understand that crypto is more like cash than like a bank account, in that there is no social consensus system that can reverse fraudulent transactions in crypto like there is in banking. This is the flip side of being able to control your own funds, and transfer them without censorship. Once people do broadly come to realize this aspect of crypto, I believe they will be far more cautious in how they choose to handle it.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
  > there is nothing inherent to crypto that prevents legal authorities from pursuing those who perpetrate fraud and bringing them to justice. I will happy to be corrected here, but my understanding is that the foundationally key aspect of crypto that makes it worth anything at all, is that people can use it to circumvent traditional financial tracking of transfers and how they are associated with the individuals who made them. So in order for legal authorities to go after fraudsters, wouldn't they need these tools - the very ones crypto circumvent by design?
  - KetoManx64 2y ago
    Bitcoin, the first, biggest and most important cryptocurrency blockchain is a often referred to a "public ledger". There is no obfuscation built into itz all transactions you make are public and if someone knows your wallet address they can see every transaction you've made. Very few cryptocurrencies are private by default (eg, Monero) and they hold a very small portion of the cryptocurrencies market cap.
    - Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
      What happens if they don't know your wallet address?
  - ETH_start 2y ago
    Most of the scams happening in the crypto space involve a significant non-crypto element, like a fake website that is made to look another website, or social engineering through messages on Discord. These criminals are well known by crypto communities, with repeat offenders targeting a given community numerous times over a course of months/years. Law enforcement has numerous opportunities to go after these individuals, even if they used a perfectly traceless cryptocurrency. In the case of FTX, it was run like a traditional bank, taking deposits and holding users'crypto and fiat assets on their behalf. The signs of a fraud were replete for many months before the crash that exposed it all, but the company was simply never investigated.
- 2y ago
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
No one believed any of that. It's always been about selling to someone else higher than you paid for it.

ETH_start 2y ago

There is no empirical evidence that the laws you're talking about benefit society. Take anti-money laundering laws for example, which have demonstrated no evidence of policy effectiveness: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/25741292.2020.1725366 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/25741292.2020.1... For a more personal look, see how it affects people born in the "wrong country": https://www.reddit.com/r/MakerDAO/s/XYh1ajhP0P https://www.reddit.com/r/MakerDAO/s/XYh1ajhP0P The actual laws that are needed, are those against victimful acts, like fraud, and you don't need the kind of freedom-reducing regulatory restrictions that have become so numerous in recent decades to have anti-fraud laws. Effective enforcement of anti-fraud laws alone would be sufficient to stop the bulk of the scams in the crypto space, and there is nothing inherent to crypto that prevents legal authorities from pursuing those who perpetrate fraud and bringing them to justice. On the plus side, free market competition has fostered innovation and discipline in the crypto space. We've gone from bug-prone smart contracts like the DAO eight years ago to highly secure bluechip DeFi applications like Aave, Uniswap, Compound and MakerDAO surviving completely unscathed in the last crypto crash. Scams still abound unfortunately, and I believe that will only subside once people at large understand that crypto is more like cash than like a bank account, in that there is no social consensus system that can reverse fraudulent transactions in crypto like there is in banking. This is the flip side of being able to control your own funds, and transfer them without censorship. Once people do broadly come to realize this aspect of crypto, I believe they will be far more cautious in how they choose to handle it.

Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
> there is nothing inherent to crypto that prevents legal authorities from pursuing those who perpetrate fraud and bringing them to justice. I will happy to be corrected here, but my understanding is that the foundationally key aspect of crypto that makes it worth anything at all, is that people can use it to circumvent traditional financial tracking of transfers and how they are associated with the individuals who made them. So in order for legal authorities to go after fraudsters, wouldn't they need these tools - the very ones crypto circumvent by design?
- KetoManx64 2y ago
  Bitcoin, the first, biggest and most important cryptocurrency blockchain is a often referred to a "public ledger". There is no obfuscation built into itz all transactions you make are public and if someone knows your wallet address they can see every transaction you've made. Very few cryptocurrencies are private by default (eg, Monero) and they hold a very small portion of the cryptocurrencies market cap.
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
    What happens if they don't know your wallet address?
- ETH_start 2y ago
  Most of the scams happening in the crypto space involve a significant non-crypto element, like a fake website that is made to look another website, or social engineering through messages on Discord. These criminals are well known by crypto communities, with repeat offenders targeting a given community numerous times over a course of months/years. Law enforcement has numerous opportunities to go after these individuals, even if they used a perfectly traceless cryptocurrency. In the case of FTX, it was run like a traditional bank, taking deposits and holding users'crypto and fiat assets on their behalf. The signs of a fraud were replete for many months before the crash that exposed it all, but the company was simply never investigated.
2y ago

bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago

No one believed any of that. It's always been about selling to someone else higher than you paid for it.