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I can’t wrap my head around the fact that 275 car models include all the actuators needed for self driving driving and there’s some kind of port third party sof

I can’t wrap my head around the fact that 275 car models include all the actuators needed for self driving driving and there’s some kind of port third party software can hook into.

flessner 2y ago
I don't know if there's a physical port in most cars, but it uses the CAN bus which has been around since the 1980s. Also, most cars that have distance assist and lane keeping probably have the required hardware to control speed and steering to some extent. Nevertheless, it's still impressive that so many cars are supported... and that it can be retrofitted like this at all!
- fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
  They also lie about models that are supported and won't assist you when you run into that. Had to return one myself. Found no evidence anywhere that my model/year was ever actually supported and anyone was using it either.
  - jmacd 2y ago
    Sounds like they refunded you?
    - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
      Yeah, that process at least was painless
  - olabyne 2y ago
    Could you say what car ?
    - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
      2023 Forte https://www.reddit.com/r/Comma_ai/comments/197k04q/2023_kia_forte_issues/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Comma_ai/comments/197k04q/2023_kia_... https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/30936 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/30936 You can find a few attempts of people trying to get it to work in their discord with no clear positive outcome, discord is unfortunately not search indexed.
      - BitsAndBlobs 2y ago
        It looks like support was added in February https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/pull/30761 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/pull/30761
        fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
        Yeah it was on the supported list when I bought it in October of 2023. The website asks your make/model/year when you buy if I recall correctly, that's how it tells you which harness to get. I found out I needed to update some files in the firmware, followed the guide for that. Asked for help in the Discord. I could never get it working though and returned it after a week. I was going to hang on to it and harass people on Discord, but didn't want to lose track of time and go beyond the return window. Believe me, I really wanted it to work. Looks like it was added to the supported list before the explicit support I guess https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/commit/e3275e918354945d543b68d5cade56c22d423693 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/commit/e3275e918354945d...
      - Teknomancer 2y ago
        > discord is unfortunately not search indexed. Using discord, etc for any open source project discussions is really unproductive. Get it that people like the immediacy of chat style communication. But it seems to encourage way more noise and less thoughtful dialogue. The worst aspect is that it locks away a lot of useful information. Trying to dig through chat histories for information is a horrible experience.
        MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
  - BitsAndBlobs 2y ago
    There's a very active community on Discord that would have been happy to help you add support for your car assuming it has the right hardware. https://comma.ai/vehicles https://comma.ai/vehicles has also been improved quite a bit in the past year.
- michaelmior 2y ago
  I beleive in the US OBDII ports are required in all vehicles 1996 and later.
- gotts 2y ago
  I suspect Openpilot sends packages to CAN bus to do steering but what makes the physical wheel rotates? I'm confused. Or when a human makes a correction to auto steering, perhaps there could be some kind of full duplex synchronization mechanism
bdavbdav 2y ago
I suspect it may be even more than that theoretically. A lot of VAG cars based on the same platform are missing.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kube-system 2y ago
Level 2 driving assistance is commonplace on many new vehicles, often as a standard feature. They are just significantly more conservative in their functionality compared to the level 2 offerings from Tesla, and marketed as safety features rather than "self driving" features. It's important to note that nothing we're talking about here is actually "self driving" per SAE standards. Openpilot, Tesla's Autopilot/FSD, Honda Sensing, Toyota Safety Sense, Hyundai SmartSense, etc are all level 2 driving assistance features. This turns level 2 driver assistance features into ... nicer level 2 driver assistance features.
- mavhc 2y ago
  Really need some decimal points in the SAE list. Fully self driving but a human has to watch, and lane keeping are both level 2
  - kube-system 2y ago
    "Fully self driving but a human has to watch" is nonsensical. Responsibility for observing the road and making decisions is a very important and inseparable part of driving. Mechanistically manipulating the steering, brakes, and accelerator is not the hard part. https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update Vehicles with levels 0-2 of driver support are never self-driving at any moment of operation. These systems might be able to manipulate the controls of the vehicle, but they are not good enough to make decisions without constant supervision at all times. Level 3 is partial self-driving, where the vehicle can assume responsibility for driving under some narrow circumstances. Full self driving doesn't happen until level 4. I think the reason that there's no decimal points is because J3016 is really a road-map of the milestones on the way to full automation, not a buyers guide.
    - mavhc 2y ago
      In which case the number should be multiplied by the percentage of cases it can be activated in, if you can Level 3 self drive in, eg "up to 37 mph but only on highways" so you multiply 3 by 0.001 because it's only useful in 0.1% of conditions, and then you can add that to the times level 2 works.
RIMR 2y ago
Somebody should make an adapter so I can plug a PS2 Controller into it.

I can’t wrap my head around the fact that 275 car models include all the actuators needed for self driving driving and there’s some kind of port third party software can hook into.

flessner 2y ago

I don't know if there's a physical port in most cars, but it uses the CAN bus which has been around since the 1980s. Also, most cars that have distance assist and lane keeping probably have the required hardware to control speed and steering to some extent. Nevertheless, it's still impressive that so many cars are supported... and that it can be retrofitted like this at all!

fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
They also lie about models that are supported and won't assist you when you run into that. Had to return one myself. Found no evidence anywhere that my model/year was ever actually supported and anyone was using it either.
- jmacd 2y ago
  Sounds like they refunded you?
  - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
    Yeah, that process at least was painless
- olabyne 2y ago
  Could you say what car ?
  - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
    2023 Forte https://www.reddit.com/r/Comma_ai/comments/197k04q/2023_kia_forte_issues/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Comma_ai/comments/197k04q/2023_kia_... https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/30936 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/30936 You can find a few attempts of people trying to get it to work in their discord with no clear positive outcome, discord is unfortunately not search indexed.
    - BitsAndBlobs 2y ago
      It looks like support was added in February https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/pull/30761 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/pull/30761
      - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
        Yeah it was on the supported list when I bought it in October of 2023. The website asks your make/model/year when you buy if I recall correctly, that's how it tells you which harness to get. I found out I needed to update some files in the firmware, followed the guide for that. Asked for help in the Discord. I could never get it working though and returned it after a week. I was going to hang on to it and harass people on Discord, but didn't want to lose track of time and go beyond the return window. Believe me, I really wanted it to work. Looks like it was added to the supported list before the explicit support I guess https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/commit/e3275e918354945d543b68d5cade56c22d423693 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/commit/e3275e918354945d...
    - Teknomancer 2y ago
      > discord is unfortunately not search indexed. Using discord, etc for any open source project discussions is really unproductive. Get it that people like the immediacy of chat style communication. But it seems to encourage way more noise and less thoughtful dialogue. The worst aspect is that it locks away a lot of useful information. Trying to dig through chat histories for information is a horrible experience.
      - MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
- BitsAndBlobs 2y ago
  There's a very active community on Discord that would have been happy to help you add support for your car assuming it has the right hardware. https://comma.ai/vehicles https://comma.ai/vehicles has also been improved quite a bit in the past year.
michaelmior 2y ago
I beleive in the US OBDII ports are required in all vehicles 1996 and later.
gotts 2y ago
I suspect Openpilot sends packages to CAN bus to do steering but what makes the physical wheel rotates? I'm confused. Or when a human makes a correction to auto steering, perhaps there could be some kind of full duplex synchronization mechanism

bdavbdav 2y ago

I suspect it may be even more than that theoretically. A lot of VAG cars based on the same platform are missing.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

kube-system 2y ago

Level 2 driving assistance is commonplace on many new vehicles, often as a standard feature. They are just significantly more conservative in their functionality compared to the level 2 offerings from Tesla, and marketed as safety features rather than "self driving" features. It's important to note that nothing we're talking about here is actually "self driving" per SAE standards. Openpilot, Tesla's Autopilot/FSD, Honda Sensing, Toyota Safety Sense, Hyundai SmartSense, etc are all level 2 driving assistance features. This turns level 2 driver assistance features into ... nicer level 2 driver assistance features.

mavhc 2y ago
Really need some decimal points in the SAE list. Fully self driving but a human has to watch, and lane keeping are both level 2
- kube-system 2y ago
  "Fully self driving but a human has to watch" is nonsensical. Responsibility for observing the road and making decisions is a very important and inseparable part of driving. Mechanistically manipulating the steering, brakes, and accelerator is not the hard part. https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update Vehicles with levels 0-2 of driver support are never self-driving at any moment of operation. These systems might be able to manipulate the controls of the vehicle, but they are not good enough to make decisions without constant supervision at all times. Level 3 is partial self-driving, where the vehicle can assume responsibility for driving under some narrow circumstances. Full self driving doesn't happen until level 4. I think the reason that there's no decimal points is because J3016 is really a road-map of the milestones on the way to full automation, not a buyers guide.
  - mavhc 2y ago
    In which case the number should be multiplied by the percentage of cases it can be activated in, if you can Level 3 self drive in, eg "up to 37 mph but only on highways" so you multiply 3 by 0.001 because it's only useful in 0.1% of conditions, and then you can add that to the times level 2 works.

RIMR 2y ago

Somebody should make an adapter so I can plug a PS2 Controller into it.