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Wasm2Mpy: Compiling WASM to MicroPython so it can run on Raspberrys
- szundi 2y agoCan we have python compiled to wasm compiled to python compiled to wasm compiled to python - just for obfuscation reasons?
- cyanydeez 2y agoBest add a LLM into the loop for real speed.
- vshymanskyy 2y agoWith this approach, wasm is compiled to native code. Translating that to Python is in theory possible, but very impractical.
- boomskats 2y agoJokes aside, when I first saw this I also assumed that WASM was being transpiled into a subset of micropython as some sort of homage to WASM's asm.js roots. The explanations in this thread make much more sense.
- bragr 2y agoI feel like this project is a classic example of the README missing a "Why?" section. Not to justify the project, it just makes it hard to evaluate without understanding why they choose implementing a transpiler rather than an embedded WASM VM. Or why not transpile to native assembly? I'm sure they have good reasons but they aren't listed here.
- ronsor 2y agoProbably at least one of "it's cool" or "I'm already using MicroPython"
- kragen 2y agoi think your questions are implicitly answered in the top page of the readme, but by showing rather than telling esp32 and stm32 run three different native assembly instruction sets (though this only supports two of them, the others listed in the first line of the readme are all arm) the coremark results seem like an adequate answer to why you'd use a compiler rather than an interpreter i do think it would be clearer, though, to explain up front that the module being built is not made of python code, but rather callable from python code
- kristianp 2y ago> i do think it would be clearer, though, to explain up front that the module being built is not made of python code, but rather callable from python code I know nothing about micropython. Do the modules contain bytecode?
- HALtheWise 2y agoIn this case, the modules contain native code compiled for the target architecture. Micropython has something approximating a dynamic linker to load them. https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/develop/natmod.html https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/develop/natmod.html
- westurner 2y agotools/mpy_ld.py: https://github.com/micropython/micropython/blob/master/tools/mpy_ld.py https://github.com/micropython/micropython/blob/master/tools... tools/mpy-tool.py lists opcodes: https://github.com/micropython/micropython/blob/master/tools/mpy-tool.py https://github.com/micropython/micropython/blob/master/tools... Can the same be done with .pyc files; what are the advantages of MicroPython native modules? Why does it need wasm2c?
- vshymanskyy 2y agoI don't think .pyc files can contain native code, but .mpy can! And that's exactly what I'm using here: - compile any language to wasm - translate wasm to C99 - use the native target toolchain to compile C99 to .mpy - run that on the device
- vshymanskyy 2y agoThanks for the feedback. I'll improve the README based on your inputs. I was focused on the actual research. Overall, this allows writing code in statically compiled languages and running it (fast) on embedded systems with MicroPython. MicroPython itself is comparatively slow, and this provides tools to deliver more demanding software (AI, signal processing, etc).
- 0points 2y agoThere exists tooling already to compile for wasm from static languages (rust, C++, and so on) and there exists tooling to run this WASM on a raspberry pi (wasmer, etc). That makes me feel the end goal here is not what's described ("make wasm so it can run on a raspberry"), but rather "make wasm run in micropython". Am I missing something?
- vshymanskyy 2y agoYes, we're talking about Raspberry Pi Pico (RP2040) here. Not the Linux-based SBCs (Single Board Computers)
- ssnover 2y agoCurious if you've seen the WAMR runtime which is explicitly designed to be lightweight enough for freestanding embedded systems on some higher end microcontrollers (Cortex-M4F).
- vshymanskyy 2y agoYes, Wasm3 also targets Cortex-M4 and even Cortex-M0 :)
- 0points 2y agoI see, thanks for the clarification!
- ConanRus 2y ago[dead]
- oulipo 2y agoWhat would be the recommendation to run on ESP32? https://github.com/wasm3/wasm3 https://github.com/wasm3/wasm3? https://github.com/espressif/esp-wasmachine https://github.com/espressif/esp-wasmachine ? https://github.com/bytecodealliance/wasm-micro-runtime/tree/main https://github.com/bytecodealliance/wasm-micro-runtime/tree/... ? https://github.com/TOPLLab/WARDuino https://github.com/TOPLLab/WARDuino ?
- vshymanskyy 2y agoFor esp32 I'd recommend https://github.com/wasm3/embedded-wasm-apps https://github.com/wasm3/embedded-wasm-apps It obviously depends on your needs/goals. P.S. I'm also the author of wasm3
- oulipo 2y agothanks for your answer!! Can you tell me a bit more about why this suggestion might be more appropriate than the others? Is it in terms of maturity? Speed? Memory footprint? Safety?
- vshymanskyy 2y agoWasm3 happily runs on ESP32, it provides a fully dynamic wasm runtime. But it's much slower than AOT compiled native code, obviously.
- oulipo 2y agoActually in my case I need a VM, because I want users to be able to upload "extension plugins" in real-time, without reuploading firmware In that case which approach / library would you recommend to embedd a WASM VM?
- vshymanskyy 2y agoThis is exactly what wasm2mpy does for MicroPython: Dynamically loaded, AOT-compiled WASM modules
- tony-allan 2y agoA great way to allow code created in another language to be compiled to a MicroPython module and then run in a MicroPython environment. These .mpy files are dynamically loaded into MicroPython using a regular python import.
- vshymanskyy 2y agoAuthor here, ready to answer any questions.
- jonathrg 2y agoLike several others I'm confused about the tagline for this. If I understand correctly, it's not compiling "WASM to micropython", but to native binary code with generated micropython bindings?
- vshymanskyy 2y agoCorrect. I didn't create the tagline, sorry