4 ms·

Wild that the NSA has a podcast. Part of me always wanted to work for them, and I still dream of cyber warfare, but the allure of big tech money and the Virgini

Wild that the NSA has a podcast. Part of me always wanted to work for them, and I still dream of cyber warfare, but the allure of big tech money and the Virginia location always pushed me away. Maybe some day.

dyauspitr 2y ago
I wonder why they don’t pay more, it’s not like the government is shy about spending money on defence.
- Arubis 2y ago
  They’re not, but they are shy about defying their own regulations around pay scales. The real money in defense is in private contracting.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    This is accurate. Imagine if NSA paid FAANG people FAANG salaries how different the world might be.
    - knowaveragejoe 2y ago
      The NSA does pay FAANG people FAANG salaries. It's just through private contractors, many of which you've never heard of.
      - dgfitz 2y ago
        Many of which you’ve never heard of. Have you? Is this just public information I didn’t see? Or are starting a conversation with an impossible premise? I also wouldn’t make assumptions.
        TechDebtDevin 2y ago
        https://www.nsa.gov/business/programs/ https://www.nsa.gov/business/programs/
        knowaveragejoe 2y ago
        That's the "royal you", not you individually. If you go looking around on linkedin or crunchbase, you'll find numerous 10-50 employee defense contractors. Having known a few individuals employed this way, I would rank them as smart, capable, highly technical and easily capable of working at FAANG. They're getting comparable compensation/benefits with far less stress, and probably work on more interesting problems than the average Googler.
        Onavo 2y ago
        Some of L3's subsidiaries definitely recruit from HN
- Barrin92 2y ago
  probably an element to it of not attracting the wrong people, they recruit largely fresh out of college and I think the expectation is that people stay, akin to a career in civil service. If you had people cycling through one of the most critical branches of US intelligence at startup pace primarily motivated by money that probably creates some issues. Because they probably care where these people wander off to when they leave the agency
  - ahazred8ta 2y ago
    "The geeks who man the NSA don’t look much like Julian Assange, because they have college degrees, shorter haircuts, better health insurance and far fewer stamps in their passports." -- Bruce Sterling
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  The government isn't shy about spending on defense, it is shy about spending on people. GS and GG pay scales aren't that great when compared to industry positions. Consider that GS-13 is often the max for SMEs in many engineering disciplines across the fed until you get into PhD territory (to stay technical, management roles more easily go up to GS-14/15). GS-14/15 if you're in cyber and somewhere like the NSA, maybe. And while that's better than GS-13, you're talking about capping at around $200k or a bit better in high cost of living areas with skills and clearances that could make you much more in industry.
adrianpike 2y ago
Same dream here - they work very interesting problems at very interesting scale, but I can see 3-4x the comp while working from anywhere? Not even a chance. I do sometimes fantasize about making a career shift when the cash comp isn't that important to me and the kids are out of the house, but as of now I value afternoon coffee breaks with my kids just too darn much.
plasma_beam 2y ago
Maryland.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  To expand on this, NSA is located on Ft. George Mead, in the state of Maryland. I have no doubt (as in, this is true) they have locations all over the world.
  - roger10-4 2y ago
    Oahu, Hawaii is another notable location. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Cryptologic_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Cryptologic_Center
    - JetSpiegel 2y ago
      Just make sure not to fly to Hong Kong from there.
avazhi 2y ago
[flagged]
- paganel 2y ago
  There’s lots of terrorist organizations brandishing terrorist tactics the world over, why limit your choices by focusing only on the Israelis? They all kill children, too, like the Israelis did during these last attacks, maybe that’s also down your alley.
  - avazhi 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Hydenty 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - avazhi 2y ago
        I don't care, bro. I'm a white Australian-American. The idea that either side is committing genocide is laughable and belies complete legal ignorance. But saying that doesn't mean I don't know which side I want to win, on ideological grounds. I'm sure the Israelis have also come to the conclusion that almost nobody cares, and they have to mostly look after their own interests, which is good - the sooner they open their arsenal properly against Hezbollah and Iran the sooner they can end things, instead of trying to fuck around with the UN and pointless resolutions and an international law game that nobody cares about.
        Hydenty 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - alex1138 2y ago
        What the hell is wrong with you?

dyauspitr 2y ago

I wonder why they don’t pay more, it’s not like the government is shy about spending money on defence.

Arubis 2y ago
They’re not, but they are shy about defying their own regulations around pay scales. The real money in defense is in private contracting.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  This is accurate. Imagine if NSA paid FAANG people FAANG salaries how different the world might be.
  - knowaveragejoe 2y ago
    The NSA does pay FAANG people FAANG salaries. It's just through private contractors, many of which you've never heard of.
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      Many of which you’ve never heard of. Have you? Is this just public information I didn’t see? Or are starting a conversation with an impossible premise? I also wouldn’t make assumptions.
      - TechDebtDevin 2y ago
        https://www.nsa.gov/business/programs/ https://www.nsa.gov/business/programs/
      - knowaveragejoe 2y ago
        That's the "royal you", not you individually. If you go looking around on linkedin or crunchbase, you'll find numerous 10-50 employee defense contractors. Having known a few individuals employed this way, I would rank them as smart, capable, highly technical and easily capable of working at FAANG. They're getting comparable compensation/benefits with far less stress, and probably work on more interesting problems than the average Googler.
      - Onavo 2y ago
        Some of L3's subsidiaries definitely recruit from HN
Barrin92 2y ago
probably an element to it of not attracting the wrong people, they recruit largely fresh out of college and I think the expectation is that people stay, akin to a career in civil service. If you had people cycling through one of the most critical branches of US intelligence at startup pace primarily motivated by money that probably creates some issues. Because they probably care where these people wander off to when they leave the agency
- ahazred8ta 2y ago
  "The geeks who man the NSA don’t look much like Julian Assange, because they have college degrees, shorter haircuts, better health insurance and far fewer stamps in their passports." -- Bruce Sterling
Jtsummers 2y ago
The government isn't shy about spending on defense, it is shy about spending on people. GS and GG pay scales aren't that great when compared to industry positions. Consider that GS-13 is often the max for SMEs in many engineering disciplines across the fed until you get into PhD territory (to stay technical, management roles more easily go up to GS-14/15). GS-14/15 if you're in cyber and somewhere like the NSA, maybe. And while that's better than GS-13, you're talking about capping at around $200k or a bit better in high cost of living areas with skills and clearances that could make you much more in industry.

adrianpike 2y ago

Same dream here - they work very interesting problems at very interesting scale, but I can see 3-4x the comp while working from anywhere? Not even a chance. I do sometimes fantasize about making a career shift when the cash comp isn't that important to me and the kids are out of the house, but as of now I value afternoon coffee breaks with my kids just too darn much.

plasma_beam 2y ago

Maryland.

dgfitz 2y ago
To expand on this, NSA is located on Ft. George Mead, in the state of Maryland. I have no doubt (as in, this is true) they have locations all over the world.
- roger10-4 2y ago
  Oahu, Hawaii is another notable location. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Cryptologic_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Cryptologic_Center
  - JetSpiegel 2y ago
    Just make sure not to fly to Hong Kong from there.

avazhi 2y ago

[flagged]

paganel 2y ago
There’s lots of terrorist organizations brandishing terrorist tactics the world over, why limit your choices by focusing only on the Israelis? They all kill children, too, like the Israelis did during these last attacks, maybe that’s also down your alley.
- avazhi 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Hydenty 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - avazhi 2y ago
      I don't care, bro. I'm a white Australian-American. The idea that either side is committing genocide is laughable and belies complete legal ignorance. But saying that doesn't mean I don't know which side I want to win, on ideological grounds. I'm sure the Israelis have also come to the conclusion that almost nobody cares, and they have to mostly look after their own interests, which is good - the sooner they open their arsenal properly against Hezbollah and Iran the sooner they can end things, instead of trying to fuck around with the UN and pointless resolutions and an international law game that nobody cares about.
      - Hydenty 2y ago
        [flagged]
    - alex1138 2y ago
      What the hell is wrong with you?