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You might take it as a clear opinion, but I read it as he is just enjoying the show. Rust-in-kernel project is now years old, it is about time to take a stance

You might take it as a clear opinion, but I read it as he is just enjoying the show. Rust-in-kernel project is now years old, it is about time to take a stance. IMO he would actually weigh in with a clear opinion if he would say something like "Rust code goes in, if it improves the kernel! Everybody get out, it's already merged" or "So far Rust brought only more drama in the kernel, show me the code finally or get out!". But this "meh, I couldn't care less what happens" answer is on one hand disappointing, and on the other hand isn't unexpected, unfortunately.

latexr 2y ago
> But this "meh, I couldn't care less what happens" I disagree with that interpretation. To me it reads as “the arguments are silly and unproductive. So far Rust looks positive to me but it’s early to say for sure”. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. And honestly, I hope Linus ignores criticism like yours¹. I hope that after the “reform” he feels happier and more adjusted and that he has a renewed love in doing good over being efficient. Software ultimately exists to serve people, so we’d all do well to put humanity first. ¹ Though I don’t mean to single you out.
chipdart 2y ago
> You might take it as a clear opinion, but I read it as he is just enjoying the show. I think this is the sort of unhelpful emotional comment that justifies Linus' position. Arguments need to stand on solid technical ground, but the emotional and almost religious fervor some less-technically inclined of some proponents is unhelpful and detrimental to make the case. > Rust-in-kernel project is now years old, it is about time to take a stance (...) You see, this is the kind of emotional drama that should stay way outside the whole debate. You're not arguing technical merits of tradeoffs (which there are, and important ones). You're arguing for an authority figure to force-feed your personal choice in spite of its technical merits, and you frame the only scenario where your option isn't pushed as an irrational outburst that shields your personal choice from any criticism. The Linux kernel project has been a huge success in a big part because the discussions on its progress stayed mainly on a technical ground, and calls were made in spite of emotional outbursts or attachments to technical choices. In line with that principle, Rust is still an exploratory technology used in proofs of concept,and the conclusions so far were clearly not decisive. That's perfectly fine. Don't you agree?
- entropicdrifter 2y ago
  The person you're replying to doesn't seem to be taking one side or the other. Kind of wild that you've projected this one-sided perspective onto them
pjmlp 2y ago
Well, in what concerns Android downstream, Rust-in-kernel is a reality, Google would like upstream to join the party, but it doesn't matter if they don't.

latexr 2y ago

> But this "meh, I couldn't care less what happens" I disagree with that interpretation. To me it reads as “the arguments are silly and unproductive. So far Rust looks positive to me but it’s early to say for sure”. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. And honestly, I hope Linus ignores criticism like yours¹. I hope that after the “reform” he feels happier and more adjusted and that he has a renewed love in doing good over being efficient. Software ultimately exists to serve people, so we’d all do well to put humanity first. ¹ Though I don’t mean to single you out.

chipdart 2y ago

> You might take it as a clear opinion, but I read it as he is just enjoying the show. I think this is the sort of unhelpful emotional comment that justifies Linus' position. Arguments need to stand on solid technical ground, but the emotional and almost religious fervor some less-technically inclined of some proponents is unhelpful and detrimental to make the case. > Rust-in-kernel project is now years old, it is about time to take a stance (...) You see, this is the kind of emotional drama that should stay way outside the whole debate. You're not arguing technical merits of tradeoffs (which there are, and important ones). You're arguing for an authority figure to force-feed your personal choice in spite of its technical merits, and you frame the only scenario where your option isn't pushed as an irrational outburst that shields your personal choice from any criticism. The Linux kernel project has been a huge success in a big part because the discussions on its progress stayed mainly on a technical ground, and calls were made in spite of emotional outbursts or attachments to technical choices. In line with that principle, Rust is still an exploratory technology used in proofs of concept,and the conclusions so far were clearly not decisive. That's perfectly fine. Don't you agree?

entropicdrifter 2y ago
The person you're replying to doesn't seem to be taking one side or the other. Kind of wild that you've projected this one-sided perspective onto them

pjmlp 2y ago

Well, in what concerns Android downstream, Rust-in-kernel is a reality, Google would like upstream to join the party, but it doesn't matter if they don't.