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Agile is not "it's done when it's done". Agile is "it makes sense every day of the week, we should talk often".

by pestaa 2y ago

intelVISA 2y ago
Agile's one of the best things to happen to software in a way: it's good to know your competitors are stuck in ceremonies, arguing over story points.
- loloquwowndueo 2y ago
  Looks like you’re talking about Scrum. Ceremonies and story points aren’t in any way mandated by the Agile manifesto.
  - yihtserns 2y ago
    There is no "ceremonies" nor "story points" in the Scrum Guide. Perhaps you are referring to "Fake Scrum".
    - loloquwowndueo 2y ago
      Daily scrum, sprint planning, retrospective and review are ceremonies, and they are totally mentioned in the guide. The guide also mentions the backlog refinement: “ This is an ongoing activity to add details, such as a description, order, and size.” It’s true that scrum doesn’t directly mention story points but tell me whether story points or t-shirt sizing aren’t the two most common ways to size a story.
      - yihtserns 2y ago
        > Daily scrum, sprint planning, retrospective and review are ceremonies, and they are totally mentioned in the guide. Those are "Events", activities to support development work. Unless you mean programming, testing, discussions, code reviews, etc are ceremonies as well? > It’s true that scrum doesn’t directly mention story points but tell me whether story points or t-shirt sizing aren’t the two most common ways to size a story. Borrowing your own words: "...story points aren’t in any way mandated by the..." Scrum Guide.
- JustBreath 2y ago
  One of my favorite responses to criticism was Dan Abramov telling people if Redux doesn't work for them, don't use it! Keep what works for you, leave what doesn't.
wilkystyle 2y ago
Not sure if this is intended to expand on my comment or to be a rebuttal to it, but to be clear: I am in full agreement with you. My comment strictly refers to many of the articles[0] and comments[1] that push back on the modern incarnation of scrum/agile/whatever. Productivity theater in project management is net harmful to innovation and actual product development velocity, but my point is that we can't go to the other extreme and have no planning or any kind of measurement. [0] https://rethinkingsoftware.substack.com/p/why-scrum-is-stressing-you-out https://rethinkingsoftware.substack.com/p/why-scrum-is-stres... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41545101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41545101
- pestaa 2y ago
  In this case, an expansion. :) Agile was ruined because of this need to be predictable and adaptable to plans. And business folks often overlook that it is predictable and adaptable -- just not in the way project managers were educated in the old days (or even to this day, I don't know) expect.

Agile is not "it's done when it's done". Agile is "it makes sense every day of the week, we should talk often".

by pestaa 2y ago

Agile is not "it's done when it's done". Agile is "it makes sense every day of the week, we should talk often".

Agile's one of the best things to happen to software in a way: it's good to know your competitors are stuck in ceremonies, arguing over story points.

loloquwowndueo 2y ago
Looks like you’re talking about Scrum. Ceremonies and story points aren’t in any way mandated by the Agile manifesto.
- yihtserns 2y ago
  There is no "ceremonies" nor "story points" in the Scrum Guide. Perhaps you are referring to "Fake Scrum".
  - loloquwowndueo 2y ago
    Daily scrum, sprint planning, retrospective and review are ceremonies, and they are totally mentioned in the guide. The guide also mentions the backlog refinement: “ This is an ongoing activity to add details, such as a description, order, and size.” It’s true that scrum doesn’t directly mention story points but tell me whether story points or t-shirt sizing aren’t the two most common ways to size a story.
    - yihtserns 2y ago
      > Daily scrum, sprint planning, retrospective and review are ceremonies, and they are totally mentioned in the guide. Those are "Events", activities to support development work. Unless you mean programming, testing, discussions, code reviews, etc are ceremonies as well? > It’s true that scrum doesn’t directly mention story points but tell me whether story points or t-shirt sizing aren’t the two most common ways to size a story. Borrowing your own words: "...story points aren’t in any way mandated by the..." Scrum Guide.
JustBreath 2y ago
One of my favorite responses to criticism was Dan Abramov telling people if Redux doesn't work for them, don't use it! Keep what works for you, leave what doesn't.

wilkystyle 2y ago

Not sure if this is intended to expand on my comment or to be a rebuttal to it, but to be clear: I am in full agreement with you. My comment strictly refers to many of the articles[0] and comments[1] that push back on the modern incarnation of scrum/agile/whatever. Productivity theater in project management is net harmful to innovation and actual product development velocity, but my point is that we can't go to the other extreme and have no planning or any kind of measurement. [0] https://rethinkingsoftware.substack.com/p/why-scrum-is-stressing-you-out https://rethinkingsoftware.substack.com/p/why-scrum-is-stres... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41545101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41545101

pestaa 2y ago
In this case, an expansion. :) Agile was ruined because of this need to be predictable and adaptable to plans. And business folks often overlook that it is predictable and adaptable -- just not in the way project managers were educated in the old days (or even to this day, I don't know) expect.