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"these surveillance practices can endanger people’s privacy, threaten their freedoms, and expose them to a host of harms, from identify theft to stalking." Is

"these surveillance practices can endanger people’s privacy, threaten their freedoms, and expose them to a host of harms, from identify theft to stalking." Is there any evidence that any of these things have ever happened as a result of this sort of data collection? I'm not talking about data posted to social media, I'm talking about the specific data collection described in this FTC press release.

stiffenoxygen 2y ago
[flagged]
mu53 2y ago
I have been stalked and harassed by an Apple employee using data they were able to glean from their access at Apple. The impossible part is proving the abuse. All of these companies keep their database, access controls, and everything they possible can about these data lakes secret. The simple fact of the matter is that you will never have any evidence someone looked you up in a database. It is really easy to walk the line, but be obvious enough to intimidate.
- mgraczyk 2y ago
  Apple wasn't listed and (outside the app store) doesn't collect the data described in the press release.
  - drawkward 2y ago
    So imagine the possible abuses by people at companies who do.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - stiffenoxygen 2y ago
    They mentioned practices that corporations do. I think any corporation that collects data on you counts here. I don't think its worth it to only talk about the examples provided in the article.
  - stiffenoxygen 2y ago
    They absolutely do, in fact they even tried to encrypt user data to not be as invasive as other companies but the FBI sued them and said no you can't do that, you need to keep that data so we can subpoena you.
kiloshib 2y ago
[dead]
orthecreedence 2y ago
Your comment is really coming across as "well, nothing bad has happened yet so who cares?" If that's not the case, please let me know how you meant it. If it is the case, surely you can imagine a world in which dragnet surveillance of people who have an expectation of privacy can be abused by corporations, institutions, or private individuals. It really doesn't take a lot of imagination to picture this world.
- mgraczyk 2y ago
  It's been ubiquitous for around 20 years now (Google started doing mass surveillance for display ads in the early 2000s) and nothing bad has happened, so yes that's my point. If nothing bad happens for decades, and that is inconsistent with your model of danger, then the model is probably wrong
  - orthecreedence 2y ago
    Your argument boils down to "yes, someone has had a gun pointed at my head for quite some time now, but they haven't pulled the trigger yet so I don't see the problem."
    - mgraczyk 2y ago
      No, I'm arguing that it's not actually a gun, and my evidence is that there are 2 billion "guns" that have been pointed at 2 billion people's heads for years, and nobody has been hurt. It's more like a flashlight than a gun
      - orthecreedence 2y ago
        > It's more like a flashlight than a gun I disagree, and again, implore you to use your imagination. If private messages (not just yours but someone elses) were to suddenly be public or institutional knowledge, what damning things might happen? What influence might some have over others? What dynamics could or would shift as a result? I'm comfortable making the claim that you aren't really thinking this through, at all, in any meaningful way.
drawkward 2y ago
Wait for the AI tools Larry Ellison wants to give to law enforcement to retroactively connect/hallucinate the dots.
dogman144 2y ago
Not only is there evidence of harms, there are is a whole industry focused on fixing the problem for those wealthy enough or incentivized enough to care. Do a bit of googling, but ADINT and RTB tracking will get you there for search terms. Or, continue being confidently dismissive of something serious people are taking very seriously. I am sorry if this FTC report targeted the source of your RSUs or otherwise motivated set of incentives, but there’s no free lunch. The consequences are finally landing of your viewpoint, done collectively, over the last decade.
- mgraczyk 2y ago
  > targeted the source of your RSUs or otherwise motivated I don't currently have any financial interest in any of these companies > but ADINT and RTB tracking will get you there for search terms. These are good things, do you have any examples of harm that has been caused by ADINT or RTB? Prosecuting criminals doesn't count for me

stiffenoxygen 2y ago

[flagged]

mu53 2y ago

I have been stalked and harassed by an Apple employee using data they were able to glean from their access at Apple. The impossible part is proving the abuse. All of these companies keep their database, access controls, and everything they possible can about these data lakes secret. The simple fact of the matter is that you will never have any evidence someone looked you up in a database. It is really easy to walk the line, but be obvious enough to intimidate.

mgraczyk 2y ago
Apple wasn't listed and (outside the app store) doesn't collect the data described in the press release.
- drawkward 2y ago
  So imagine the possible abuses by people at companies who do.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- stiffenoxygen 2y ago
  They mentioned practices that corporations do. I think any corporation that collects data on you counts here. I don't think its worth it to only talk about the examples provided in the article.
- stiffenoxygen 2y ago
  They absolutely do, in fact they even tried to encrypt user data to not be as invasive as other companies but the FBI sued them and said no you can't do that, you need to keep that data so we can subpoena you.

kiloshib 2y ago

[dead]

orthecreedence 2y ago

Your comment is really coming across as "well, nothing bad has happened yet so who cares?" If that's not the case, please let me know how you meant it. If it is the case, surely you can imagine a world in which dragnet surveillance of people who have an expectation of privacy can be abused by corporations, institutions, or private individuals. It really doesn't take a lot of imagination to picture this world.

mgraczyk 2y ago
It's been ubiquitous for around 20 years now (Google started doing mass surveillance for display ads in the early 2000s) and nothing bad has happened, so yes that's my point. If nothing bad happens for decades, and that is inconsistent with your model of danger, then the model is probably wrong
- orthecreedence 2y ago
  Your argument boils down to "yes, someone has had a gun pointed at my head for quite some time now, but they haven't pulled the trigger yet so I don't see the problem."
  - mgraczyk 2y ago
    No, I'm arguing that it's not actually a gun, and my evidence is that there are 2 billion "guns" that have been pointed at 2 billion people's heads for years, and nobody has been hurt. It's more like a flashlight than a gun
    - orthecreedence 2y ago
      > It's more like a flashlight than a gun I disagree, and again, implore you to use your imagination. If private messages (not just yours but someone elses) were to suddenly be public or institutional knowledge, what damning things might happen? What influence might some have over others? What dynamics could or would shift as a result? I'm comfortable making the claim that you aren't really thinking this through, at all, in any meaningful way.

drawkward 2y ago

Wait for the AI tools Larry Ellison wants to give to law enforcement to retroactively connect/hallucinate the dots.

dogman144 2y ago

Not only is there evidence of harms, there are is a whole industry focused on fixing the problem for those wealthy enough or incentivized enough to care. Do a bit of googling, but ADINT and RTB tracking will get you there for search terms. Or, continue being confidently dismissive of something serious people are taking very seriously. I am sorry if this FTC report targeted the source of your RSUs or otherwise motivated set of incentives, but there’s no free lunch. The consequences are finally landing of your viewpoint, done collectively, over the last decade.

mgraczyk 2y ago
> targeted the source of your RSUs or otherwise motivated I don't currently have any financial interest in any of these companies > but ADINT and RTB tracking will get you there for search terms. These are good things, do you have any examples of harm that has been caused by ADINT or RTB? Prosecuting criminals doesn't count for me