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Any solution that requires updating clients, servers, and networking equipment to support the protocol and/or adjust the network address scheme of the environme

Any solution that requires updating clients, servers, and networking equipment to support the protocol and/or adjust the network address scheme of the environment will require the exact same steps doing an IPV4 to IPV6 migration would require.

paperplatter 2y ago
Not so. IPv4->6 removes all existing v4 address blocks and redoes the addressing scheme. Those changes weren't necessary for expanding the address space. This implies that day 1 of using ipv6, all your addresses are different (and way longer), all your routes change, DNS DHCP etc all need to be swapped out, and bans/reputation are all reset with no clear replacement. And there were a bunch of smaller changes / new features. Whatever you do to get more addresses, it will look similar in the end, but the steps could've been very different.
- kemotep 2y ago
  How would a computer with an expanded address scheme communicate with another device with an unexpanded IPV4 address? How would that client get its response back? How would a router know what to do with it without updating its software? At the end of the day, you are talking about using a different than IPV4 address scheme and using a different protocol than IPV4. Everything in the stack will need to be updated. Every hop on the route, every single piece of software that will interact with the network address. Backwards compatibility still requires everything but the older device to be updated.
  - paperplatter 2y ago
    Yes, everything has to be updated eventually, but going forward doesn't have to be this hard. A network and its hosts could start supporting ipv6 without changing anything else. Same addr and routes as before, same NAT, and no DNS6/DHCP6/etc, so very low effort and risk to turn it on. If a peer only supports v4, talk v4 to it for now. Then once there's sufficient v6 adoption, you can disable v4 entirely and start using /40, /48, etc..
    - kemotep 2y ago
      But you can do that with IPV6? I have both an IPV4 and IPV6 address on this very device. My confusion in the claims that we could do it differently is how the protocol could be updated without actually doing the work of updating everything on the network and adding the new address scheme.
      - paperplatter 2y ago
        But you're still using ipv4, which cannot be upgraded in-place the way I described. I responded to a sibling comment about the second question.
        kemotep 2y ago
        What makes the 4 to 5 NAT different than the current 4 to 6 NAT and DNS?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        paperplatter 2y ago
        4-to-5 NAT would be effectively the same if that's what you use, but I don't see why you'd need one.
    - Dagonfly 2y ago
      > Same addr and routes as before But same addr is the problem we are trying to solve in the first place. Using your IP-new proposal (let's call it IPv5): If every IPv5 addr is just a padded version of the same IPv4 addr, then once IPv4 addresses are exhausted the IPv4-mapped-into-IPv5 addresses are also exhausted. At that point you need to start handing out IPv5 addresses to hosts without an IPv4 address. And then, how does a IPv5-only host talk to a IPv4-only legacy host? That's the fundamental issue! The same addr thing only buys you time until the address exhaustion becomes real.
      - 2y ago

paperplatter 2y ago

Not so. IPv4->6 removes all existing v4 address blocks and redoes the addressing scheme. Those changes weren't necessary for expanding the address space. This implies that day 1 of using ipv6, all your addresses are different (and way longer), all your routes change, DNS DHCP etc all need to be swapped out, and bans/reputation are all reset with no clear replacement. And there were a bunch of smaller changes / new features. Whatever you do to get more addresses, it will look similar in the end, but the steps could've been very different.

kemotep 2y ago
How would a computer with an expanded address scheme communicate with another device with an unexpanded IPV4 address? How would that client get its response back? How would a router know what to do with it without updating its software? At the end of the day, you are talking about using a different than IPV4 address scheme and using a different protocol than IPV4. Everything in the stack will need to be updated. Every hop on the route, every single piece of software that will interact with the network address. Backwards compatibility still requires everything but the older device to be updated.
- paperplatter 2y ago
  Yes, everything has to be updated eventually, but going forward doesn't have to be this hard. A network and its hosts could start supporting ipv6 without changing anything else. Same addr and routes as before, same NAT, and no DNS6/DHCP6/etc, so very low effort and risk to turn it on. If a peer only supports v4, talk v4 to it for now. Then once there's sufficient v6 adoption, you can disable v4 entirely and start using /40, /48, etc..
  - kemotep 2y ago
    But you can do that with IPV6? I have both an IPV4 and IPV6 address on this very device. My confusion in the claims that we could do it differently is how the protocol could be updated without actually doing the work of updating everything on the network and adding the new address scheme.
    - paperplatter 2y ago
      But you're still using ipv4, which cannot be upgraded in-place the way I described. I responded to a sibling comment about the second question.
      - kemotep 2y ago
        What makes the 4 to 5 NAT different than the current 4 to 6 NAT and DNS?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        paperplatter 2y ago
        4-to-5 NAT would be effectively the same if that's what you use, but I don't see why you'd need one.
  - Dagonfly 2y ago
    > Same addr and routes as before But same addr is the problem we are trying to solve in the first place. Using your IP-new proposal (let's call it IPv5): If every IPv5 addr is just a padded version of the same IPv4 addr, then once IPv4 addresses are exhausted the IPv4-mapped-into-IPv5 addresses are also exhausted. At that point you need to start handing out IPv5 addresses to hosts without an IPv4 address. And then, how does a IPv5-only host talk to a IPv4-only legacy host? That's the fundamental issue! The same addr thing only buys you time until the address exhaustion becomes real.
    - 2y ago