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The personas in the article: > Moore, who learned how to code by taking online classes, says not having a college degree didn’t stop him from finding work six

The personas in the article: > Moore, who learned how to code by taking online classes, says not having a college degree didn’t stop him from finding work six years ago. > Myron Lucan, a 31-year-old in Dallas, recently went to coding school > nontechnical workers in the industry, including marketing, human resources and recruiters, have been laid off multiple times THIS is the issue. If you have a CS degree (EDIT: And Experience, internship or FT), you will find some job. If you went to a coding bootcamp, are a self taught programmer, and/or are working in a non-technical role you don't have an edge compared to the multiple recent and mid-career graduates who have the same experience AND a college degree. I've been frank about this multiple times - if you don't have fundamental skills and knowledge in Algorithms and Systems (an actual Data Structures, Algorithms, and OS class), no offense but you are just a script monkey. As a hiring manager, I pay the big bucks for demonstrated domain experience AND critical thinking skills. If I need boilerplate code EPAM and TCS (and in 10 years AI-driven code generation platforms) can do that for me.

shmatt 2y ago
its more like, if you know what you're doing. I started seeing the trickle of bootcamp grads coming in maybe 7-8 years ago. Many of them were just as good as the CS grads. They have no issue finding new jobs today, some are even at FAANG Someone who went from bootcamp to coding 6 years ago shouldn't have any issue finding a coding job today, if they're actually good and progressed over those 6 years and have worked a year or 2 as a senior engineer at a good/known company. My guess is they aren't Companies today want people who can hit the ground running. Less jobs for juniors, less jobs for ramping up within 3-4 months.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > its more like, if you know what you're doing. You're right! I'd take a risk on hiring a non-traditional student who taught themselves to code and is a maintainer of a decent sized OSS project. Not on a bootcamp grad with no coding experience outside of the bootcamp. > Companies today want people who can hit the ground running. Less jobs for juniors, less jobs for ramping up within 3-4 months. Exactly. And I can confirm that.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  > They have no issue finding new jobs today, some are even at FAANG I went this way and then later taught at a bootcamp, so my network is heavily skewed towards this kind of engineer. It is not true that they have no issue finding jobs. The very few that ended up at big tech companies, or who have a prestigious non-tech degree, are mostly doing fine. The ones who just got normal developer jobs at normal non-famous companies are having a hard time from what I know of my personal connections. They were more likely to get laid off and less likely to have found something else after, or are stuck in their current role because they can't even get interviews. And I mean the 2015-2018 bootcamp cohorts, firmly mid-level with 5+ years experience. I don't have many connections to the newer waves of code school grads and am not talking about them. I think the other commenter is basically correct. The time when you could have a secure development career without a degree quietly ended over the last couple years.
greenie_beans 2y ago
> If you went to a coding bootcamp, are a self taught programmer, or are working in a non-technical role you don't have an edge compared to the multiple recent and mid-career graduates who have the same experience AND a college degree. unless you have an edge that isn't a CS degree. CS degree is not the only edge in this industry.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  True! Progressing Experience and Skill will trumps ANY degree. The candidates mentioned in the article are all early career or freelance who cannot differentiate themselves based on experience or education.

shmatt 2y ago

its more like, if you know what you're doing. I started seeing the trickle of bootcamp grads coming in maybe 7-8 years ago. Many of them were just as good as the CS grads. They have no issue finding new jobs today, some are even at FAANG Someone who went from bootcamp to coding 6 years ago shouldn't have any issue finding a coding job today, if they're actually good and progressed over those 6 years and have worked a year or 2 as a senior engineer at a good/known company. My guess is they aren't Companies today want people who can hit the ground running. Less jobs for juniors, less jobs for ramping up within 3-4 months.

alephnerd 2y ago
> its more like, if you know what you're doing. You're right! I'd take a risk on hiring a non-traditional student who taught themselves to code and is a maintainer of a decent sized OSS project. Not on a bootcamp grad with no coding experience outside of the bootcamp. > Companies today want people who can hit the ground running. Less jobs for juniors, less jobs for ramping up within 3-4 months. Exactly. And I can confirm that.
giraffe_lady 2y ago
> They have no issue finding new jobs today, some are even at FAANG I went this way and then later taught at a bootcamp, so my network is heavily skewed towards this kind of engineer. It is not true that they have no issue finding jobs. The very few that ended up at big tech companies, or who have a prestigious non-tech degree, are mostly doing fine. The ones who just got normal developer jobs at normal non-famous companies are having a hard time from what I know of my personal connections. They were more likely to get laid off and less likely to have found something else after, or are stuck in their current role because they can't even get interviews. And I mean the 2015-2018 bootcamp cohorts, firmly mid-level with 5+ years experience. I don't have many connections to the newer waves of code school grads and am not talking about them. I think the other commenter is basically correct. The time when you could have a secure development career without a degree quietly ended over the last couple years.

greenie_beans 2y ago

> If you went to a coding bootcamp, are a self taught programmer, or are working in a non-technical role you don't have an edge compared to the multiple recent and mid-career graduates who have the same experience AND a college degree. unless you have an edge that isn't a CS degree. CS degree is not the only edge in this industry.

alephnerd 2y ago
True! Progressing Experience and Skill will trumps ANY degree. The candidates mentioned in the article are all early career or freelance who cannot differentiate themselves based on experience or education.