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Government can't do it either. Defined benefit is impossible for everyone. "Government" should be understood as a general term, not just "The US government" or

by jerf 2y ago

Government can't do it either. Defined benefit is impossible for everyone. "Government" should be understood as a general term, not just "The US government" or whatever Western country you may live in. How many governments have fallen in the past 20 years? Probably more than you may realize. How sure are you that "the government" you live under will be there in 30 years? There's an awful lot of stress in the world right now. And I'm not even talking about governments providing pensions, I'm talking about the fact you can't even count on them to exist. They still can't provide the impossible after that and promise absolutely defined benefits. Although this is a non-trivial part of why defined benefit is impossible for any entity to provide, because no entity can provide 100% reassurance it's going to be there in 40-50 years. None. Not government, not an individual, not a foundation, not a company, none. There is no way to put an obligation on future humans that the future humans can not do some combination of repudiation or simply failing to be able to meet them. It is already looking to me very likely that if the US does have continuity up until my retirement, still ~20 years away, that while it may nominally provide all the "dollars" it promises I will receive, that those dollars will be not worth very much. There's more than one way to fail to make good on promises and confusing people about "give me $20 today and I'll give you $50 in 40 years" is one that still gets almost everyone... that sounds fantastic to most people and it's actually terrible, if the government also controls what dollars are worth.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Society might collapse so we can't feed old people is a heck of a take. The government controls what the dollars are worth no matter what. You provide no solution only doom and gloom. Maybe go for a hike in the woods. Either we figure something out or we go back to old people eating scraps out of trash cans like they did before we established social security. If a society can't progress and get rid of at the very least scarcity of food for old people during the most unprecedented growth of productivity in the history of the planet, what is the point of that society?
- jerf 2y ago
  You are misreading a descriptive take with a normative take. The problem is that defined benefit plans are not possible. If you actually care about old people, rather than caring about scoring internet points yelling at people online, then the correct solution is to understand the problem, and start dealing with it. The "yell at anyone explaining that defined benefits plans are impossible and then give out defined benefits plans anyhow" is what is and will continue to hurt people. It's not people like me hurting people, it's people like you who insist on living in fantasy because my gosh isn't the fantasy nicer than the reality.

by jerf 2y ago

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Society might collapse so we can't feed old people is a heck of a take. The government controls what the dollars are worth no matter what. You provide no solution only doom and gloom. Maybe go for a hike in the woods. Either we figure something out or we go back to old people eating scraps out of trash cans like they did before we established social security. If a society can't progress and get rid of at the very least scarcity of food for old people during the most unprecedented growth of productivity in the history of the planet, what is the point of that society?

jerf 2y ago
You are misreading a descriptive take with a normative take. The problem is that defined benefit plans are not possible. If you actually care about old people, rather than caring about scoring internet points yelling at people online, then the correct solution is to understand the problem, and start dealing with it. The "yell at anyone explaining that defined benefits plans are impossible and then give out defined benefits plans anyhow" is what is and will continue to hurt people. It's not people like me hurting people, it's people like you who insist on living in fantasy because my gosh isn't the fantasy nicer than the reality.