3 ms·

I remember their (pivotal) culture was very unique. Maybe the developers have tired out of mandatory pairing

N_A_T_E 2y ago
I recall the mandatory pairing as quite popular among some devs during that era. I wonder if anyone is actually still working in that manner.
- numbsafari 2y ago
  Yeah. Now they are pairing with a chatbot.
- yieldcrv 2y ago
  I do alot of my work after close of business, I don’t do well in companies that require collaboration to get tasks done I’ll pass all team player marks and metrics, but if there’s too much custom tooling, distributed knowledge and gatekeepers, my performance will suffer more than those that pair all day
- Puntergone 2y ago
  Funny story, I work out of a small part of Accenture and was just today explaining to a client that this is how we work (pairing, TDD, etc.). Way back in 2018 or so we had a partnership with Pivotal and they taught us a bunch of their ways of working. It's been a challenge to maintain, especially through Covid, but a lot of the core ideas and practices are still alive. It doesn't work on every project, but man when it does it's a very nice way to do software.
  - _boffin_ 2y ago
    When the flow between the pair hits, it’s a beautiful thing.
- SalientBlue 2y ago
  I work at what used to be Pivotal, now Broadcom via VMware, and do pair programming every day. It was a bit of an adjustment, and I do sometimes miss solo dev work, but pairing does have some real benefits. It is really nice to have another set of eyes to catch mistakes you miss, and it's fantastic for spreading knowledge and onboarding new developers.
sodapopcan 2y ago
I never worked at Pivotal but did work in a 100% pairing cultural (it wasn’t forced but our team did it for three years) and I desperately miss it. It’s so hard to find companies that do it.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  I worked with several Pivotal teams, and also really miss it. I've never been as productive or had that much fun at work.
  - sodapopcan 2y ago
    > I've never been as productive or had that much fun at work. This was my experience as well.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- willsmith72 2y ago
  I miss it every time I review a behemoth PR, or another engineer proposes a giant design change in a PR. Those discussions need to happen earlier
  - glenjamin 2y ago
    I’ve been asked to review massive PRs that were produced by a pair plenty of times.
    - sodapopcan 2y ago
      People have very different views on this and there are no rules, but in my view one of the major benefits of pairing all the time is NOT doing code review.
whalesalad 2y ago
Thoughtworks is exclusively a pair programming org. I went through a full interview process with them and ultimately declined the offer because it didn't feel like the juice was worth the squeeze on all the travel, strict pairing, and low salary.
_boffin_ 2y ago
Worked at CoreLogic Labs, which was 100% influenced by The Pivotal Way. It would leave me utterly tired at the end of the day from the pairing, but what a way to reduce some silos and increase productivity. 1 computer, 2 mice, and 2 keyboards. Had a few mice wars that got frustrating at times, but still loved it. Had my best manager there of my career — Guss. Quite sad that they’re shutting down Tracker as it’s just such a good tool compared to others.
- twic 2y ago
  I remember starting at Pivotal and being shocked by the two mice, two keyboards (and two displays, mirrored) setup. At the previous XP shops i had worked at, we had one mouse, one keyboard, and one display (comprising two monitors) - sharing the physical peripherals made sharing and transferring responsibility completely natural. It seemed bizarre to me to duplicate them, introduce what you call mouse wars, and make it impossible to point at something on the screen. But of course, everyone at Pivotal insisted that theirs was the only way to do it!
twodave 2y ago
Reminds me of the BitBucket “spooning” video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wUOUmeulNs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wUOUmeulNs
pknomad 2y ago
I worked at Pivotal (2017-2018) and I'll say pairing culture is not for everyone but it was a great experience for me. Much of the experience is dependent on finding someone that is at your "wavelength". It provided good work structure and reduced knowledge silo'ing. I had good experience with it, fwiw.

I recall the mandatory pairing as quite popular among some devs during that era. I wonder if anyone is actually still working in that manner.

numbsafari 2y ago
Yeah. Now they are pairing with a chatbot.
yieldcrv 2y ago
I do alot of my work after close of business, I don’t do well in companies that require collaboration to get tasks done I’ll pass all team player marks and metrics, but if there’s too much custom tooling, distributed knowledge and gatekeepers, my performance will suffer more than those that pair all day
Puntergone 2y ago
Funny story, I work out of a small part of Accenture and was just today explaining to a client that this is how we work (pairing, TDD, etc.). Way back in 2018 or so we had a partnership with Pivotal and they taught us a bunch of their ways of working. It's been a challenge to maintain, especially through Covid, but a lot of the core ideas and practices are still alive. It doesn't work on every project, but man when it does it's a very nice way to do software.
- _boffin_ 2y ago
  When the flow between the pair hits, it’s a beautiful thing.
SalientBlue 2y ago
I work at what used to be Pivotal, now Broadcom via VMware, and do pair programming every day. It was a bit of an adjustment, and I do sometimes miss solo dev work, but pairing does have some real benefits. It is really nice to have another set of eyes to catch mistakes you miss, and it's fantastic for spreading knowledge and onboarding new developers.

sodapopcan 2y ago

I never worked at Pivotal but did work in a 100% pairing cultural (it wasn’t forced but our team did it for three years) and I desperately miss it. It’s so hard to find companies that do it.

BurningFrog 2y ago
I worked with several Pivotal teams, and also really miss it. I've never been as productive or had that much fun at work.
- sodapopcan 2y ago
  > I've never been as productive or had that much fun at work. This was my experience as well.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
willsmith72 2y ago
I miss it every time I review a behemoth PR, or another engineer proposes a giant design change in a PR. Those discussions need to happen earlier
- glenjamin 2y ago
  I’ve been asked to review massive PRs that were produced by a pair plenty of times.
  - sodapopcan 2y ago
    People have very different views on this and there are no rules, but in my view one of the major benefits of pairing all the time is NOT doing code review.

whalesalad 2y ago

Thoughtworks is exclusively a pair programming org. I went through a full interview process with them and ultimately declined the offer because it didn't feel like the juice was worth the squeeze on all the travel, strict pairing, and low salary.

_boffin_ 2y ago

Worked at CoreLogic Labs, which was 100% influenced by The Pivotal Way. It would leave me utterly tired at the end of the day from the pairing, but what a way to reduce some silos and increase productivity. 1 computer, 2 mice, and 2 keyboards. Had a few mice wars that got frustrating at times, but still loved it. Had my best manager there of my career — Guss. Quite sad that they’re shutting down Tracker as it’s just such a good tool compared to others.

twic 2y ago
I remember starting at Pivotal and being shocked by the two mice, two keyboards (and two displays, mirrored) setup. At the previous XP shops i had worked at, we had one mouse, one keyboard, and one display (comprising two monitors) - sharing the physical peripherals made sharing and transferring responsibility completely natural. It seemed bizarre to me to duplicate them, introduce what you call mouse wars, and make it impossible to point at something on the screen. But of course, everyone at Pivotal insisted that theirs was the only way to do it!

twodave 2y ago

Reminds me of the BitBucket “spooning” video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wUOUmeulNs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wUOUmeulNs

pknomad 2y ago

I worked at Pivotal (2017-2018) and I'll say pairing culture is not for everyone but it was a great experience for me. Much of the experience is dependent on finding someone that is at your "wavelength". It provided good work structure and reduced knowledge silo'ing. I had good experience with it, fwiw.