5 ms·

Spare the rod, spoil the child I'm from El Salvador and beatings are a regular thing for us. It's normal for us to start working at 12. Now that's the extreme,

Spare the rod, spoil the child I'm from El Salvador and beatings are a regular thing for us. It's normal for us to start working at 12. Now that's the extreme, but this whole don't hit your kids movement is an epidemic.

RedwoodCity 14y ago
It just takes one or two people to take the idea of physical punishment too far before people start calling for change. In the 1970's in the USA teachers were allowed to hit students. I would like to see a teacher try that now.
- tsotha 14y ago
  I went to school back then, and the teachers weren't allowed to hit students. They could send you to the principal for corporal punishment, but his options were strictly circumscribed. His biggest weapon, in fact, was the threat of a paddling. I can't say that's the way it was everywhere, but they didn't need to rely on that kind of thing - if you made too much trouble they would simply expel you, something I don't think happens these days.
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    My parents were both in schools where they were physically beat, their fellow students were physically beat, and physical violence was always on the table as a response to student behavior. Their resentment (and the feeling of betrayal by their parents who condoned this behavior) lives on to this day.
    - Jtsummers 14y ago
      In the US? What part?
      - jpxxx 14y ago
        Missouri, circa 50's, catholic school.
        Jtsummers 14y ago
        So yeah, I think your parent post was talking about public schools. I won't argue that physical punishment (and abuse in some places) was absent from Catholic schools, especially at that time. Missouri also seems to be home to much more conservative Catholics than I'm used to seeing in other parts of the country which may relate to why the teachers/administration behaved that way.
  - will_work4tears 14y ago
    This is my experience. Always the principal. In fact I got in a spot of trouble in High School in 93-94 and was threatened with a paddle, so it isn't like this practice is ancient.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  Yes, let's give up the idea of civilization. It's just much easier to inflict violence as a means of discipline and control. That doesn't have any long term psychological or behavioral impact. Hey kids, if you don't like what someone's doing, use violence. Wonder why the world's nations' military policies are the way they are?
- gnaritas 14y ago
  If by physical punishment you mean spanking, it's all too far. You don't need to hit your kids, ever. The ends do not justify the means.
  - briandear 14y ago
    Spanking has decreased in schools. Violence has increased in schools. Just sayin'
    - gnaritas 14y ago
      Whales have decreased in numbers, violence has increased in schools. Just sayin'
      - briandear 14y ago
        Right. And whales were once a significant part of school discipline.
        gnaritas 14y ago
        Correlation is not causation, my stat is equally as valid as yours. They are both equally worthless for drawing conclusions.
        g8oz 14y ago
        Treatment of children could possibly connected to subsequent behavior of children? Sounds possible.
        gnaritas 14y ago
        Which is why you need to be reminded that correlation isn't causation; just because something sounds good doesn't mean it is. You're just repeating a known fallacy.
jaggederest 14y ago
You know, there are ways to enforce discipline that don't require abuse.
- angersock 14y ago
  There certainly are. However, for certain ages and situations, nothing gets the point across quite as succinctly or unambiguously as a sharp thwack or spanking. I wouldn't, however, consider that as discipline per se--that is something that takes a larger, longer-term sort of environment and character building than fast "don't do that" punishment.
  - gnaritas 14y ago
    That is bad reasoning. Lots of things that you shouldn't do are effective, that doesn't make them any less wrong. That something works does not make it ok. The ends do not justify the means. It is no less wrong to hit your kid than to hit your spouse.
    - randallsquared 14y ago
      That something works does not make it ok. The ends do not justify the means. Depends on whether you're consequentialist or deontologicalist, I guess. For a consequentialist, nothing can make something okay other than that it works, and ends are the only thing that can justify any means. :)
    - larrys 14y ago
      "It is no less wrong to hit your kid than to hit your spouse." Presumably a spouse has more intelligence, maturity, and common sense than a child and is a peer (equal) that you can speak to and don't have to resort to "spanking" or much worse.
      - gnaritas 14y ago
        A person who can't outsmart a child has no business raising one. Words work just as effectively on children when applied consistently.
rrggrr 14y ago
Hitting your kids is parenting for amateurs or dummies. Anytime I catch myself with the urge to hit I remind myself I'm a lot smarter than those little shits (whom I love immensely) and its just a matter of calmly reminding them of their incentives, both negative and positive. The same holds true for yelling. I find that having them look in my eyes and speaking very quietly and calmly accomplishes a lot more. YMMV.
- kaybe 14y ago
  As kids we learned from that that resorting to violence is an instant loss of the fight, since even the adult would admit it. Not the worst lesson to teach, I believe.
- ekianjo 14y ago
  Kids better take their hits from their own family first. They get used to the violence in society later this way, and get stronger through the process. I'd like to see you vindicate your view that adults raised without "physical" education end up being better adults. The trends in society certainly don't seem to indicate your are right. As long as it's not abusive, disproportionate, and done in the proper circumstances and for the right reasons, there's nothing wrong with that. Please note I'm not advocating beating up your child for no reason whatsoever. It should be the last resort to educate. But just like the experience of fire is necessary to fear it, the experience of authority through a variety of means has value.
- larrys 14y ago
  "Hitting your kids is parenting for amateurs or dummies." That's very absolute a statement. "matter of calmly reminding them of their incentives, both negative and positive." As you said YMMV. Children are different from not only different families but within the same family. Punishment that works with one is pointless with another.
- rrggrr 14y ago
  @ekianjo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow metaphorically the best response to your comment on multiple levels. @larrys Make a list of your kid's 5 favorite things. Make hitting them the sixth option. Give them authority to choose between the bad behavior or losing the items sequentially. With most kids by the time you get to item three you have compliance. No hitting required. IMHO the key is letting them choose among consequences or to pursue the behavior. Gives them independence and boundries at the same time.
artsrc 14y ago
> this whole don't hit your kids movement is an epidemic I think it is a part of the "pay attention to science" epidemic, like stopping smoking, and taking lead out of petrol.
DannoHung 14y ago
I think your kids should hit you until you can't hit them. Pig fucker.

RedwoodCity 14y ago

It just takes one or two people to take the idea of physical punishment too far before people start calling for change. In the 1970's in the USA teachers were allowed to hit students. I would like to see a teacher try that now.

tsotha 14y ago
I went to school back then, and the teachers weren't allowed to hit students. They could send you to the principal for corporal punishment, but his options were strictly circumscribed. His biggest weapon, in fact, was the threat of a paddling. I can't say that's the way it was everywhere, but they didn't need to rely on that kind of thing - if you made too much trouble they would simply expel you, something I don't think happens these days.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  My parents were both in schools where they were physically beat, their fellow students were physically beat, and physical violence was always on the table as a response to student behavior. Their resentment (and the feeling of betrayal by their parents who condoned this behavior) lives on to this day.
  - Jtsummers 14y ago
    In the US? What part?
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      Missouri, circa 50's, catholic school.
      - Jtsummers 14y ago
        So yeah, I think your parent post was talking about public schools. I won't argue that physical punishment (and abuse in some places) was absent from Catholic schools, especially at that time. Missouri also seems to be home to much more conservative Catholics than I'm used to seeing in other parts of the country which may relate to why the teachers/administration behaved that way.
- will_work4tears 14y ago
  This is my experience. Always the principal. In fact I got in a spot of trouble in High School in 93-94 and was threatened with a paddle, so it isn't like this practice is ancient.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
Yes, let's give up the idea of civilization. It's just much easier to inflict violence as a means of discipline and control. That doesn't have any long term psychological or behavioral impact. Hey kids, if you don't like what someone's doing, use violence. Wonder why the world's nations' military policies are the way they are?
gnaritas 14y ago
If by physical punishment you mean spanking, it's all too far. You don't need to hit your kids, ever. The ends do not justify the means.
- briandear 14y ago
  Spanking has decreased in schools. Violence has increased in schools. Just sayin'
  - gnaritas 14y ago
    Whales have decreased in numbers, violence has increased in schools. Just sayin'
    - briandear 14y ago
      Right. And whales were once a significant part of school discipline.
      - gnaritas 14y ago
        Correlation is not causation, my stat is equally as valid as yours. They are both equally worthless for drawing conclusions.
        g8oz 14y ago
        Treatment of children could possibly connected to subsequent behavior of children? Sounds possible.
        gnaritas 14y ago
        Which is why you need to be reminded that correlation isn't causation; just because something sounds good doesn't mean it is. You're just repeating a known fallacy.

jaggederest 14y ago

You know, there are ways to enforce discipline that don't require abuse.

angersock 14y ago
There certainly are. However, for certain ages and situations, nothing gets the point across quite as succinctly or unambiguously as a sharp thwack or spanking. I wouldn't, however, consider that as discipline per se--that is something that takes a larger, longer-term sort of environment and character building than fast "don't do that" punishment.
- gnaritas 14y ago
  That is bad reasoning. Lots of things that you shouldn't do are effective, that doesn't make them any less wrong. That something works does not make it ok. The ends do not justify the means. It is no less wrong to hit your kid than to hit your spouse.
  - randallsquared 14y ago
    That something works does not make it ok. The ends do not justify the means. Depends on whether you're consequentialist or deontologicalist, I guess. For a consequentialist, nothing can make something okay other than that it works, and ends are the only thing that can justify any means. :)
  - larrys 14y ago
    "It is no less wrong to hit your kid than to hit your spouse." Presumably a spouse has more intelligence, maturity, and common sense than a child and is a peer (equal) that you can speak to and don't have to resort to "spanking" or much worse.
    - gnaritas 14y ago
      A person who can't outsmart a child has no business raising one. Words work just as effectively on children when applied consistently.

rrggrr 14y ago

Hitting your kids is parenting for amateurs or dummies. Anytime I catch myself with the urge to hit I remind myself I'm a lot smarter than those little shits (whom I love immensely) and its just a matter of calmly reminding them of their incentives, both negative and positive. The same holds true for yelling. I find that having them look in my eyes and speaking very quietly and calmly accomplishes a lot more. YMMV.

kaybe 14y ago
As kids we learned from that that resorting to violence is an instant loss of the fight, since even the adult would admit it. Not the worst lesson to teach, I believe.
ekianjo 14y ago
Kids better take their hits from their own family first. They get used to the violence in society later this way, and get stronger through the process. I'd like to see you vindicate your view that adults raised without "physical" education end up being better adults. The trends in society certainly don't seem to indicate your are right. As long as it's not abusive, disproportionate, and done in the proper circumstances and for the right reasons, there's nothing wrong with that. Please note I'm not advocating beating up your child for no reason whatsoever. It should be the last resort to educate. But just like the experience of fire is necessary to fear it, the experience of authority through a variety of means has value.
larrys 14y ago
"Hitting your kids is parenting for amateurs or dummies." That's very absolute a statement. "matter of calmly reminding them of their incentives, both negative and positive." As you said YMMV. Children are different from not only different families but within the same family. Punishment that works with one is pointless with another.
rrggrr 14y ago
@ekianjo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Ycw0d_Uow metaphorically the best response to your comment on multiple levels. @larrys Make a list of your kid's 5 favorite things. Make hitting them the sixth option. Give them authority to choose between the bad behavior or losing the items sequentially. With most kids by the time you get to item three you have compliance. No hitting required. IMHO the key is letting them choose among consequences or to pursue the behavior. Gives them independence and boundries at the same time.

artsrc 14y ago

> this whole don't hit your kids movement is an epidemic I think it is a part of the "pay attention to science" epidemic, like stopping smoking, and taking lead out of petrol.

DannoHung 14y ago

I think your kids should hit you until you can't hit them. Pig fucker.