3 ms·

Mozilla has an open source product, but a SF startups work plan and a NY hedgefunds ethics. Maybe I should donate some time and money to Ladybird...

coldtea 2y ago
>Mozilla has an open source product, but a SF startups work plan and a NY hedgefunds ethics Plus early 2010s Nokia management.
- raverbashing 2y ago
  Painfully true
Onavo 2y ago
Support Brave if you really want to stick it to them. Brave was founded by ousted Mozillians.
- fire_lake 2y ago
  Brave is a Chromium fork though?
  - speerer 2y ago
    Different stick; just as pointy.
    - gatlin 2y ago
      But I don't want a pointy stick, I want a program that loads web pages securely and quickly and doesn't log my browsing habits and sell them to advertisers.
      - BrendanEich 2y ago
        We don't log anything. Chrome does, but Google doesn't sell it to advertisers, Google hoards the data for its own business interests, at best renting API ad matching access to slices of your data.
- sandwichmonger 2y ago
  Brave is a fake privacy browser. From what I've heard, despite explicitly opting out of telemetry, it often makes requests to “laptop-updates.brave.com” which is actually also used for affiliates.
  - Phemist 2y ago
    And on top of that you are directly helping chromium to an even larger marketshare and bringing us closer again to the internet's technical monoculture. Usage of Brave indirectly helps Chrome become a better product, by significantly increasing stability and security of the chromium-base, sucking up resources that couldve also been spent on a more privacy-friendly browser alternative.
    - BrendanEich 2y ago
      Or you could help us take down Google's abused-monopoly business now, instead of dying on the "make a new engine work with the Web as it is" hill. Choose wisely, you may not get to that new-webcompat-enough-engine hill in any foreseeable future.
      - supercheetah 2y ago
        You're still contributing to the Chromium monoculture, though.
        BrendanEich 2y ago
        Apple has WebKit, which Chromium forked as Blink in 2013. Apple and Google do not share code post-fork, and Apple denies Google ~30% of the browser market, so using "mono-" is wrong. Google has a search monopoly, but not quite a browser and definitely not a browser engine monopoly. The KHTML/WebKit lineage is more a monoculture in its older parts, but I say this is evolution in action (cf. successful alleles and haplogroups across many populations). So we are not "contributing" much to any monoculture or monopoly, and the alternative is dying on the wrong hill, as I just posted. Any substantive response?
- ParetoOptimal 2y ago
  > Brave was founded by ousted Mozillians. > resigned shortly after his appointment due to pressure over his firm opposition to same-sex marriage[0] No thanks. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich
raxxorraxor 2y ago
Mozilla really has fallen deeply. The writings were on the wall for quite some time, it is just sad to have it confirmed. I hope Firefox/Thunderbird survives current day Mozilla.
consf 2y ago
This could be a way to support a more ethical approach to tech
- zx8080 2y ago
  > This could be a way to support a more ethical approach to tech Replace "tech" with "business" (because it is), and there'll be the answer. And it is probable "Rarely, but usually no".
sexy_seedbox 2y ago
Zen Browser is where your donations should go to: https://zen-browser.app/ https://zen-browser.app/
- qweoqiwje 2y ago
  That site is not as informative as I would have liked. Pray tell, why?
  - sexy_seedbox 2y ago
    Recent HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41303974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41303974
  - CyberDildonics 2y ago
    Pray tell what information do you need?
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      How long has it been around, how quickly does it ship updates after its upstream, how large is the project? In short, how reliable is it and how well is it going to be supported in the future? I don't want to end up on a browser that lags security updates because their patches are so painful to keep rebasing or because there's only one guy who knows how to do it and he's offline this week.
      - CyberDildonics 2y ago
        Pray tell, what browser has had these problems?
        its-summertime 2y ago
        Bromite to name one
JeremyNT 2y ago
The narrative Teixeira paints is certainly damning, but with stuff like this it's usually worth waiting a bit to hear the full story before bringing out the pitchforks. I'd wait for some more details before jumping to any conclusions.

coldtea 2y ago

>Mozilla has an open source product, but a SF startups work plan and a NY hedgefunds ethics Plus early 2010s Nokia management.

raverbashing 2y ago
Painfully true

Onavo 2y ago

Support Brave if you really want to stick it to them. Brave was founded by ousted Mozillians.

fire_lake 2y ago
Brave is a Chromium fork though?
- speerer 2y ago
  Different stick; just as pointy.
  - gatlin 2y ago
    But I don't want a pointy stick, I want a program that loads web pages securely and quickly and doesn't log my browsing habits and sell them to advertisers.
    - BrendanEich 2y ago
      We don't log anything. Chrome does, but Google doesn't sell it to advertisers, Google hoards the data for its own business interests, at best renting API ad matching access to slices of your data.
sandwichmonger 2y ago
Brave is a fake privacy browser. From what I've heard, despite explicitly opting out of telemetry, it often makes requests to “laptop-updates.brave.com” which is actually also used for affiliates.
- Phemist 2y ago
  And on top of that you are directly helping chromium to an even larger marketshare and bringing us closer again to the internet's technical monoculture. Usage of Brave indirectly helps Chrome become a better product, by significantly increasing stability and security of the chromium-base, sucking up resources that couldve also been spent on a more privacy-friendly browser alternative.
  - BrendanEich 2y ago
    Or you could help us take down Google's abused-monopoly business now, instead of dying on the "make a new engine work with the Web as it is" hill. Choose wisely, you may not get to that new-webcompat-enough-engine hill in any foreseeable future.
    - supercheetah 2y ago
      You're still contributing to the Chromium monoculture, though.
      - BrendanEich 2y ago
        Apple has WebKit, which Chromium forked as Blink in 2013. Apple and Google do not share code post-fork, and Apple denies Google ~30% of the browser market, so using "mono-" is wrong. Google has a search monopoly, but not quite a browser and definitely not a browser engine monopoly. The KHTML/WebKit lineage is more a monoculture in its older parts, but I say this is evolution in action (cf. successful alleles and haplogroups across many populations). So we are not "contributing" much to any monoculture or monopoly, and the alternative is dying on the wrong hill, as I just posted. Any substantive response?
ParetoOptimal 2y ago
> Brave was founded by ousted Mozillians. > resigned shortly after his appointment due to pressure over his firm opposition to same-sex marriage[0] No thanks. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich

raxxorraxor 2y ago

Mozilla really has fallen deeply. The writings were on the wall for quite some time, it is just sad to have it confirmed. I hope Firefox/Thunderbird survives current day Mozilla.

consf 2y ago

This could be a way to support a more ethical approach to tech

zx8080 2y ago
> This could be a way to support a more ethical approach to tech Replace "tech" with "business" (because it is), and there'll be the answer. And it is probable "Rarely, but usually no".

sexy_seedbox 2y ago

Zen Browser is where your donations should go to: https://zen-browser.app/ https://zen-browser.app/

qweoqiwje 2y ago
That site is not as informative as I would have liked. Pray tell, why?
- sexy_seedbox 2y ago
  Recent HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41303974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41303974
- CyberDildonics 2y ago
  Pray tell what information do you need?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    How long has it been around, how quickly does it ship updates after its upstream, how large is the project? In short, how reliable is it and how well is it going to be supported in the future? I don't want to end up on a browser that lags security updates because their patches are so painful to keep rebasing or because there's only one guy who knows how to do it and he's offline this week.
    - CyberDildonics 2y ago
      Pray tell, what browser has had these problems?
      - its-summertime 2y ago
        Bromite to name one

JeremyNT 2y ago

The narrative Teixeira paints is certainly damning, but with stuff like this it's usually worth waiting a bit to hear the full story before bringing out the pitchforks. I'd wait for some more details before jumping to any conclusions.