6 ms·

One thing that's surprised me about the US is the general slowness of most things. In India, you can get MRIs and CT Scans same day. Or you could the last time

by arjie 2y ago

One thing that's surprised me about the US is the general slowness of most things. In India, you can get MRIs and CT Scans same day. Or you could the last time I was there. And it didn't cost very much in comparison. My doctors have all been good (attested to by my parents who are surgeons themselves) but the healthcare system is wonky. One thing I didn't expect is that the Indian system where you just drag your health records around paper copy yourself is superior to US EMR systems - which doctors seem to always have trouble with. But now I have some friends in medicine and I always have them pull my records and keep a copy myself. It's usually a fax but it's better that way. Clearly electronic interop isn't working most of the time.

rscho 2y ago
Electronic health records have dismal ergonomy, usually. They're profiled for billing performance instead of care performance.
askonomm 2y ago
In Estonia all of our records (incl. Health) are digitized and online in a central system that both doctors and you can access. It works wonders. Every doctor I go to can see my entire medical history with a press of a button, and I don't have to deal with any of that. Likewise when they prescribe new things, I can see my prescriptions right there, and so forth. We're a 100% online nation now, and clearly when done well it's remarkably good.
- fire_lake 2y ago
  Does one big digital system make a cyber attack more damaging?
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    Efficiency and resiliency are usually orthogonal.
    - HPsquared 2y ago
      Like a physical structure made of one large component is often the strongest and lightest, most rigid etc. But it's the most vulnerable to cracking or other failures.
  - 28304283409234 2y ago
    Or any other attack. I remember we had such a centralized registration system. It was used to great effect by the German Nazis when they occupied our country. Of course, occupation by foreign aggressors is highly unlikely in Estonia. Unless history repeats itself as it has (in Estonia) dozens of times.
    - askonomm 2y ago
      Do you want to advance your society and make life more convenient for the people or do you want to live in constant fear and create unnecessary complexities for the people? We put a lot of effort in creating secure systems, we audit them constantly, and we get a plethora of cyber attacks from Russians on a constant basis, but they haven't gotten through yet. We believe in living the best life we can, through the means of making life as convenient as we can, and we're very happy our government thinks the same. I've lived abroad many times, in many countries, and every single time was miserable because of the unnecessary complexity every basic thing involved. I very much doubt that complexity was for security reasons, more like the incompetence of the government bureaucrats to create a cohesive system that interoperates with all the different parts.
      - atoav 2y ago
        Why does this need to be framed as a ditochomy? I want my health system to be both resilient and efficient. Why? Because generally when unforeseen black-swan-type catastrophic events produce high demand in the health system, chances are other infrastructure is also affected by whatever that event was. If the last pandemic has shown anything it is that if great minds come together and cast aside their corporations strategic or financial incentives for a moment, we can have the nice things — so for example tools that excell in multiple dimensions at once that many described as incompatible with each other: convenience, resilience, privacy, ... If we want to move things forward, we should do our level best to not fall into the trap of false dichotomies. What is often framed as a fundamental dichotomy is usually just a tension that people with vested interests abuse to get a solution that suits them. That is not where real innovation or good engineering happens.
  - willvarfar 2y ago
    Estonia is frequently targeted by massive coordinated and sophisticated cyber attacks. So far it has proved very resilient and secure.
  - jillesvangurp 2y ago
    In theory yes. But having accurate & complete information in the hands of nurses and doctors saves lives on a daily basis as well.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    Well, they are engaged in constant low-level conflict with Russia, so their systems must be pretty hardened against hostile incursions already. If there is one EU region where digital security must be taken as a life-and-death matter, it is the Baltics. In case of weakening of NATO, they are the foremost candidates for the next Special Military Operation.
    - benterix 2y ago
      > In case of weakening of NATO, they are the foremost candidates for the next Special Military Operation. I guess the odds of Trump winning are much lower than a couple of months ago. And even if he wins, if he follows with his stupid plan of giving Ukraine to Putin, he will be criticized by all sides. So losing a Baltic state would be another bitter blow and he probably would want to avoid that as he wants to appear "strong". Also, NATO is not just the USA. The remaining countries had no choice but to increase their military spending and will continue to support Ukraine until the last dime knowing that the fall of this country will just make Putin more aggressive. We can't just let this happen, with the next American administration or without.
      - inglor_cz 2y ago
        It is not really just about Trump. It is quite obvious at least since Obama that US strategic interests are reorienting towards Southeast Asia, which is understandable as half of humanity lives there. And even with a friendly administration, it can feasibly happen that there will be more crises unfolding at the same time than the US is capable of efficiently addressing. (Say, Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan.) I wonder how much of a choice the other countries have. Being a European and observing European political patterns, I am very sure that Finland, Sweden, Denmark and most of the former Soviet satellites will continue to support Ukraine because they know what is at stake for them. The UK may as well, given that the dislike between England and Russia goes a long way back. But there are influential people in Germany (and I am not talking about the AfD here, but about the industrial lobby) constantly pushing in the back rooms for reconciliation with Russia at any cost, because high energy costs have made a mess of the German economy, and I can see something like a repeat of the Munich betrayal of 1938 in the future. At this phase of the war, Putin would be open to such an agreement with Germany. Not even his wildest plans foresee a re-subjugation of the former GDR, so Germany risks "nothing" (well, a lot of goodwill east of the Oder, but that may be an acceptable tradeoff for the businesspeople). And the more distant countries such as Spain or the Netherlands or Belgium aren't really that much interested in Eastern European affairs, all the verbal proclamations notwithstanding. Although NL has some unsettled business against Russia with regards to that shot down airliner.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Are there safeguards in place to prevent the wrong people looking up your data with the touch of a button though? I'm aware of Estonia's digital prowess but for me privacy is a top concern and I'm glad we're not so all-in here.
  - askonomm 2y ago
    In the FAQ section of our health portal (https://www.terviseportaal.ee/en/kontaktid-ja-kkk/ https://www.terviseportaal.ee/en/kontaktid-ja-kkk/) it states: > In Estonia, health information is gathered to the Health Information System, where your prescriptions and medical records are accessible to the health care professionals that provide services to you. The Health Portal enables you to view your data in the Health Information System, submit additional information, and change your personal data. You may restrict your health data if you wish. In that case, health care professionals no longer have access to your health information and the quality of medical care may be impaired, especially in emergency situations. We take privacy very seriously. We can also see exactly who looked at our data, as there is a log of every person or institute who has done so. A little more is written here: https://e-estonia.com/i-spy-with-my-little-eyeprivacy/ https://e-estonia.com/i-spy-with-my-little-eyeprivacy/
  - xtracto 2y ago
    I understand where you are coming from. But for ME I have personally ever wondered why are people afraid of others knowing their medical history. This I know is a very unpopular opinion, but for my specific case, I've got plenty of medical record that may be considered "shameful"? Got several colonoscopies, endoscopies, I lost a finger, I had a LIS (anal operation) , etc, etc, etc haha. Yet, I kind of don't really care if people knew about it. Maybe I have never truly suffered discrimination (I'm what we call "whitexican" here in Mexico, so I'm privileged. And that's why I think like this.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      In countries where healthcare can exclude preexisting conditions this can be a major problem. And it's not just about shame. It's just about it being nobody's business. I'm not afraid of people knowing my history (though I imagine my mental health history may raise some eyebrows, I don't feel bad about it) but it's just none of anyone else's business and I would certainly be pissed if someone knew that I didn't confide in.
gsa 2y ago
Electronic interop, in my experience talking to my GP (not US), is tricky not because of technical challenges but very strict privacy implications.
- renewiltord 2y ago
  I wish I could pre-select an "I don't care. I'm informed and choose an open docs policy" box once after writing a 1 h exam and call it quits. My genome is on the Internet. I bet nothing bad will come of it by the time I die.
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    There's safety in numbers.
- xvector 2y ago
  Classic example of government overregulation fucking over the regular citizen. I go to two hospitals and am dealing with a medical condition and it's a total nightmare. Each hospital uses the same backend but I have to go through a lengthy and convoluted process to let them share information with each other after every single appointment. I'm getting really sick of this affecting my treatment in the name of "privacy." I have a medical condition, for god's sake. Privacy is completely irrelevant if my doctors cannot even efficiently communicate to treat me. Every week I curse whoever it was that thought this would be a great idea. I'm sure it sounded great in their heads, as regulations tend to do for most bureaucrats. I am a security engineer btw, I have worked on privacy and security featuresets for products that billions of people use every day. I am 100% confident that it is doing more harm than good in the medical-information-sharing space.
evnix 2y ago
The general slowness extends to simple things like x-rays and blood tests too. This is not just US but whole of the west seems to have the exact same attitude. Most of Asia has same day or next day medical tests. In India you can order something like UberEats where in a technician comes home collects your blood samples and the results are emailed within the next 24 hours or so. Medicine seems to be commoditzed in the east, easily accessible and cheap. West treats it like voodoo magic or rocket science that only a chosen few are capable of partaking in. There is always a long queue to get to your local voodoo practitioner.
- CaptainZapp 2y ago
  > The general slowness extends to simple things like x-rays and blood tests too. This is not just US but whole of the west seems to have the exact same attitude. In Switzerland I get an MRI within 48 hours if my doctor orders it. Mind you, healthcare is also very expensive comparatively but the quality is very high and coverage is extensive.
  - short_sells_poo 2y ago
    I feel the seiss system really nails it. Health insurance is mandatory. If you can't afford even the basic level, the government pays for it. The basic level itself covers basically everything from emergency care, hospital stays and gp. The extras you can pay for are things like single rooms in hospitals or access to private clinics. Compared to the local salaries, the basic package is quite cheap - doubly so compared to the UK where National Insurance extracts a very hefty portion of your paycheck and this gets you the dire waiting times of nhs...
    - sega_sai 2y ago
      National insurance contributions have nothing to do with the NHS. NI contributions determine your state pension (but because the money from NI just goes to treasury, NI is really just income tax with different name)
    - MediumOwl 2y ago
kamalamomala 2y ago
[flagged]
- xvector 2y ago
  Each society has its own good and bad, and you can't dismiss an achievement because something totally unrelated happens in the same country.
faangguyindia 2y ago
MRI and CT scans done in India vs US will have vastly different quality. Basically, for equal quality in india you'll always end up paying 2x-5x of what you'll pay in any developed nation. This is the primary reason, if you are rich and want quality - you will overpay in india.
- gregjor 2y ago
  I doubt this. I don’t have experience in India, but I have had lots of medical care in Thailand. Twice now Thai hospitals have found things that my US doctor and US imaging/diagnostic clinics missed. I can get MRI & CT immediately in Thailand, in the same places the doctor works. In the US I have to go to a separate clinic and wait weeks or even months. Cost in Thailand, at the most expensive private hospital (Bumrungrad) typically 1/5 or less US prices. I also had great experience at public hospital in Taiwan, just walked in and asked for a test. Price was less than 10% for the same procedure in US, with no waiting. And don’t even start on cost of prescription meds. Americans get scammed.
heraldgeezer 2y ago
But did you get to redeem?
fnordpiglet 2y ago
This changed about 15 years ago. Prior to that you would often just go same visit to imaging or whatever.
mattclarkdotnet 2y ago
Australia checking in and agreeing, usually same day or even within a few hours for MRI, x-ray and ultrasound. Next day for CAT. Centralised records so each practitioner can see the full history. Oh and blood tests done with max 30 minute wait and then results in 48h
- iteria 2y ago
  Same and I'm American. Although as an American, I always struggle with blanket statements because we have wildly different standards for literally everything depending on where you are. I live in a major city that isn't LA or NYC or something like that. all of my medical records are digitized too. All my doctors can look at everything an urgent care, hospital, regular doctor did. But also my sister who lives in nowhere, USA has to deal with paper everything and long delays. The US is both 1st and 3rd world depending on what area you're talking about.
tester89 2y ago
Can the median income Indian citizen get such service? Chances are no. This report is about the average case. Extremely rich Americans, just like extremely rich Indians can probably get faster service.
betaby 2y ago
> One thing that's surprised me about the US is the general slowness of most things. ... and there is Canada
xtracto 2y ago
In Mexico my experience was this: * 8am arrive to the emergency room in a private hospital * 8:10am get seen by an internist doctor and after initial review, tell the doctor that I would like to get an MRI. 8.20 get a doctor prescribed mri ans take it to the radiology department 8:40 get the MRI 9:30 Get the results of the MRI, and pay for the whole thing: No more than $1500 USD. Without insurance . 10:00am take mri to doctor and get appropriate prescription. That was an amazing experience. We have these incredible technologies that could be used to detect illness waaaay before . Like, allow everyone to have an MRI every 6 months. Regardless of illnes, after.say you are 30.
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  Plenty of urgent care places in the US will give you an mri if you walk in. It’s just expensive because labor here is crazy expensive compared to Mexico.

by arjie 2y ago

rscho 2y ago

Electronic health records have dismal ergonomy, usually. They're profiled for billing performance instead of care performance.

askonomm 2y ago

In Estonia all of our records (incl. Health) are digitized and online in a central system that both doctors and you can access. It works wonders. Every doctor I go to can see my entire medical history with a press of a button, and I don't have to deal with any of that. Likewise when they prescribe new things, I can see my prescriptions right there, and so forth. We're a 100% online nation now, and clearly when done well it's remarkably good.

fire_lake 2y ago
Does one big digital system make a cyber attack more damaging?
- llm_trw 2y ago
  Efficiency and resiliency are usually orthogonal.
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    Like a physical structure made of one large component is often the strongest and lightest, most rigid etc. But it's the most vulnerable to cracking or other failures.
- 28304283409234 2y ago
  Or any other attack. I remember we had such a centralized registration system. It was used to great effect by the German Nazis when they occupied our country. Of course, occupation by foreign aggressors is highly unlikely in Estonia. Unless history repeats itself as it has (in Estonia) dozens of times.
  - askonomm 2y ago
    Do you want to advance your society and make life more convenient for the people or do you want to live in constant fear and create unnecessary complexities for the people? We put a lot of effort in creating secure systems, we audit them constantly, and we get a plethora of cyber attacks from Russians on a constant basis, but they haven't gotten through yet. We believe in living the best life we can, through the means of making life as convenient as we can, and we're very happy our government thinks the same. I've lived abroad many times, in many countries, and every single time was miserable because of the unnecessary complexity every basic thing involved. I very much doubt that complexity was for security reasons, more like the incompetence of the government bureaucrats to create a cohesive system that interoperates with all the different parts.
    - atoav 2y ago
      Why does this need to be framed as a ditochomy? I want my health system to be both resilient and efficient. Why? Because generally when unforeseen black-swan-type catastrophic events produce high demand in the health system, chances are other infrastructure is also affected by whatever that event was. If the last pandemic has shown anything it is that if great minds come together and cast aside their corporations strategic or financial incentives for a moment, we can have the nice things — so for example tools that excell in multiple dimensions at once that many described as incompatible with each other: convenience, resilience, privacy, ... If we want to move things forward, we should do our level best to not fall into the trap of false dichotomies. What is often framed as a fundamental dichotomy is usually just a tension that people with vested interests abuse to get a solution that suits them. That is not where real innovation or good engineering happens.
- willvarfar 2y ago
  Estonia is frequently targeted by massive coordinated and sophisticated cyber attacks. So far it has proved very resilient and secure.
- jillesvangurp 2y ago
  In theory yes. But having accurate & complete information in the hands of nurses and doctors saves lives on a daily basis as well.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  Well, they are engaged in constant low-level conflict with Russia, so their systems must be pretty hardened against hostile incursions already. If there is one EU region where digital security must be taken as a life-and-death matter, it is the Baltics. In case of weakening of NATO, they are the foremost candidates for the next Special Military Operation.
  - benterix 2y ago
    > In case of weakening of NATO, they are the foremost candidates for the next Special Military Operation. I guess the odds of Trump winning are much lower than a couple of months ago. And even if he wins, if he follows with his stupid plan of giving Ukraine to Putin, he will be criticized by all sides. So losing a Baltic state would be another bitter blow and he probably would want to avoid that as he wants to appear "strong". Also, NATO is not just the USA. The remaining countries had no choice but to increase their military spending and will continue to support Ukraine until the last dime knowing that the fall of this country will just make Putin more aggressive. We can't just let this happen, with the next American administration or without.
    - inglor_cz 2y ago
      It is not really just about Trump. It is quite obvious at least since Obama that US strategic interests are reorienting towards Southeast Asia, which is understandable as half of humanity lives there. And even with a friendly administration, it can feasibly happen that there will be more crises unfolding at the same time than the US is capable of efficiently addressing. (Say, Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan.) I wonder how much of a choice the other countries have. Being a European and observing European political patterns, I am very sure that Finland, Sweden, Denmark and most of the former Soviet satellites will continue to support Ukraine because they know what is at stake for them. The UK may as well, given that the dislike between England and Russia goes a long way back. But there are influential people in Germany (and I am not talking about the AfD here, but about the industrial lobby) constantly pushing in the back rooms for reconciliation with Russia at any cost, because high energy costs have made a mess of the German economy, and I can see something like a repeat of the Munich betrayal of 1938 in the future. At this phase of the war, Putin would be open to such an agreement with Germany. Not even his wildest plans foresee a re-subjugation of the former GDR, so Germany risks "nothing" (well, a lot of goodwill east of the Oder, but that may be an acceptable tradeoff for the businesspeople). And the more distant countries such as Spain or the Netherlands or Belgium aren't really that much interested in Eastern European affairs, all the verbal proclamations notwithstanding. Although NL has some unsettled business against Russia with regards to that shot down airliner.
wkat4242 2y ago
Are there safeguards in place to prevent the wrong people looking up your data with the touch of a button though? I'm aware of Estonia's digital prowess but for me privacy is a top concern and I'm glad we're not so all-in here.
- askonomm 2y ago
  In the FAQ section of our health portal (https://www.terviseportaal.ee/en/kontaktid-ja-kkk/ https://www.terviseportaal.ee/en/kontaktid-ja-kkk/) it states: > In Estonia, health information is gathered to the Health Information System, where your prescriptions and medical records are accessible to the health care professionals that provide services to you. The Health Portal enables you to view your data in the Health Information System, submit additional information, and change your personal data. You may restrict your health data if you wish. In that case, health care professionals no longer have access to your health information and the quality of medical care may be impaired, especially in emergency situations. We take privacy very seriously. We can also see exactly who looked at our data, as there is a log of every person or institute who has done so. A little more is written here: https://e-estonia.com/i-spy-with-my-little-eyeprivacy/ https://e-estonia.com/i-spy-with-my-little-eyeprivacy/
- xtracto 2y ago
  I understand where you are coming from. But for ME I have personally ever wondered why are people afraid of others knowing their medical history. This I know is a very unpopular opinion, but for my specific case, I've got plenty of medical record that may be considered "shameful"? Got several colonoscopies, endoscopies, I lost a finger, I had a LIS (anal operation) , etc, etc, etc haha. Yet, I kind of don't really care if people knew about it. Maybe I have never truly suffered discrimination (I'm what we call "whitexican" here in Mexico, so I'm privileged. And that's why I think like this.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    In countries where healthcare can exclude preexisting conditions this can be a major problem. And it's not just about shame. It's just about it being nobody's business. I'm not afraid of people knowing my history (though I imagine my mental health history may raise some eyebrows, I don't feel bad about it) but it's just none of anyone else's business and I would certainly be pissed if someone knew that I didn't confide in.

gsa 2y ago

Electronic interop, in my experience talking to my GP (not US), is tricky not because of technical challenges but very strict privacy implications.

renewiltord 2y ago
I wish I could pre-select an "I don't care. I'm informed and choose an open docs policy" box once after writing a 1 h exam and call it quits. My genome is on the Internet. I bet nothing bad will come of it by the time I die.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  There's safety in numbers.
xvector 2y ago
Classic example of government overregulation fucking over the regular citizen. I go to two hospitals and am dealing with a medical condition and it's a total nightmare. Each hospital uses the same backend but I have to go through a lengthy and convoluted process to let them share information with each other after every single appointment. I'm getting really sick of this affecting my treatment in the name of "privacy." I have a medical condition, for god's sake. Privacy is completely irrelevant if my doctors cannot even efficiently communicate to treat me. Every week I curse whoever it was that thought this would be a great idea. I'm sure it sounded great in their heads, as regulations tend to do for most bureaucrats. I am a security engineer btw, I have worked on privacy and security featuresets for products that billions of people use every day. I am 100% confident that it is doing more harm than good in the medical-information-sharing space.

evnix 2y ago

The general slowness extends to simple things like x-rays and blood tests too. This is not just US but whole of the west seems to have the exact same attitude. Most of Asia has same day or next day medical tests. In India you can order something like UberEats where in a technician comes home collects your blood samples and the results are emailed within the next 24 hours or so. Medicine seems to be commoditzed in the east, easily accessible and cheap. West treats it like voodoo magic or rocket science that only a chosen few are capable of partaking in. There is always a long queue to get to your local voodoo practitioner.

CaptainZapp 2y ago
> The general slowness extends to simple things like x-rays and blood tests too. This is not just US but whole of the west seems to have the exact same attitude. In Switzerland I get an MRI within 48 hours if my doctor orders it. Mind you, healthcare is also very expensive comparatively but the quality is very high and coverage is extensive.
- short_sells_poo 2y ago
  I feel the seiss system really nails it. Health insurance is mandatory. If you can't afford even the basic level, the government pays for it. The basic level itself covers basically everything from emergency care, hospital stays and gp. The extras you can pay for are things like single rooms in hospitals or access to private clinics. Compared to the local salaries, the basic package is quite cheap - doubly so compared to the UK where National Insurance extracts a very hefty portion of your paycheck and this gets you the dire waiting times of nhs...
  - sega_sai 2y ago
    National insurance contributions have nothing to do with the NHS. NI contributions determine your state pension (but because the money from NI just goes to treasury, NI is really just income tax with different name)
  - MediumOwl 2y ago

kamalamomala 2y ago

[flagged]

xvector 2y ago
Each society has its own good and bad, and you can't dismiss an achievement because something totally unrelated happens in the same country.

faangguyindia 2y ago

MRI and CT scans done in India vs US will have vastly different quality. Basically, for equal quality in india you'll always end up paying 2x-5x of what you'll pay in any developed nation. This is the primary reason, if you are rich and want quality - you will overpay in india.

gregjor 2y ago
I doubt this. I don’t have experience in India, but I have had lots of medical care in Thailand. Twice now Thai hospitals have found things that my US doctor and US imaging/diagnostic clinics missed. I can get MRI & CT immediately in Thailand, in the same places the doctor works. In the US I have to go to a separate clinic and wait weeks or even months. Cost in Thailand, at the most expensive private hospital (Bumrungrad) typically 1/5 or less US prices. I also had great experience at public hospital in Taiwan, just walked in and asked for a test. Price was less than 10% for the same procedure in US, with no waiting. And don’t even start on cost of prescription meds. Americans get scammed.

heraldgeezer 2y ago

But did you get to redeem?

fnordpiglet 2y ago

This changed about 15 years ago. Prior to that you would often just go same visit to imaging or whatever.

mattclarkdotnet 2y ago

Australia checking in and agreeing, usually same day or even within a few hours for MRI, x-ray and ultrasound. Next day for CAT. Centralised records so each practitioner can see the full history. Oh and blood tests done with max 30 minute wait and then results in 48h

iteria 2y ago
Same and I'm American. Although as an American, I always struggle with blanket statements because we have wildly different standards for literally everything depending on where you are. I live in a major city that isn't LA or NYC or something like that. all of my medical records are digitized too. All my doctors can look at everything an urgent care, hospital, regular doctor did. But also my sister who lives in nowhere, USA has to deal with paper everything and long delays. The US is both 1st and 3rd world depending on what area you're talking about.

tester89 2y ago

Can the median income Indian citizen get such service? Chances are no. This report is about the average case. Extremely rich Americans, just like extremely rich Indians can probably get faster service.

betaby 2y ago

> One thing that's surprised me about the US is the general slowness of most things. ... and there is Canada

xtracto 2y ago

In Mexico my experience was this: * 8am arrive to the emergency room in a private hospital * 8:10am get seen by an internist doctor and after initial review, tell the doctor that I would like to get an MRI. 8.20 get a doctor prescribed mri ans take it to the radiology department 8:40 get the MRI 9:30 Get the results of the MRI, and pay for the whole thing: No more than $1500 USD. Without insurance . 10:00am take mri to doctor and get appropriate prescription. That was an amazing experience. We have these incredible technologies that could be used to detect illness waaaay before . Like, allow everyone to have an MRI every 6 months. Regardless of illnes, after.say you are 30.

HDThoreaun 2y ago
Plenty of urgent care places in the US will give you an mri if you walk in. It’s just expensive because labor here is crazy expensive compared to Mexico.