8 ms·

> Traditional US car manufacturers are absolutely incompetent and will not survive competition with Chinese manufacturers unless they clean house on everything

> Traditional US car manufacturers are absolutely incompetent and will not survive competition with Chinese manufacturers unless they clean house on everything software related. Legacy American car companies have been fully non-competitive with foreign brands for decades. Their continued existence is completely due to tariffs, and it’s not close. I see no reason to think congress would suddenly allow them to be threatened by Chinese companies.

throwawaymaths 2y ago
Moreover it's not clear how long china will be able to continue subsidizing the electric cars the way they do.
- reaperman 2y ago
  More subsidies than the $7,500 per vehicle subsidy that the US government gives for our EV vehicles?
  - ywvcbk 2y ago
    To be fair you can’t really use this type of subsidy for price dumping in foreign markets like China is doing in Europe and would love to do as well in the US.
  - nxm 2y ago
    Wages and hence manufacturing costs are higher in the US
- yosefk 2y ago
  are you sure they are subsidizing them and not simply producing them more cheaply?
  - iamacyborg 2y ago
    China are subsidising the entire supply chain. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_3231 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_...
  - throwawaymaths 2y ago
    It's a moot point. China won't be able to continue to do this for much longer.
Geezus_42 2y ago
I mean, we already nailed them out once.
Aromasin 2y ago
For those who aren't aware it's a 25% tarrif, so most manufacturers don't bother even trying to sell in the US. That's why almost all European/Japanese brand cars are 30+ years old over there. I find it entertaining when my US colleague come visit and are amazed at all the options. I drive a new Toyota Hilux, and they weren't even aware they made them anymore. For a country that once prided itself on being the land of the free market capitalist, it's a shame the decision makers are so scared now of competition.
- xattt 2y ago
  Back in the 2000s, VW released the Sirroco. I was graduating from uni, and it looked like the perfect car for me. I would have moved heaven and earth to own one. Alas, VW hemmed and hawed on homologation for North America and ultimately, it did not happen. I do wish we had EU-level options here.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
    ? You mean the Scirocco that's been around since the 70's? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Scirocco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Scirocco
    - cbm-vic-20 2y ago
      The US never got the 3rd gen models. There were plenty of 2nd gen models back in the day, but they're getting a bit old- I haven't seen one on the road for many years.
    - xattt 2y ago
      Apologies for the typo. I should have rephrased it as “re-released”. Third-gen didn’t make it to North America because it would have eaten away at the Golf/Rabbit market share.
- ThunderSizzle 2y ago
  We haven't been the land of the free in a while, but we repeat it enough and then keep electing the uniparty in to keep it moving. Itjumped significantly when the Federal Reserve was founded, backed by a national and originally-unconstitutional unapportioned direct income tax to feed it money. DC suddenly had a way to tax anyone and everyone without repercussions. Then FDR played with fascism and instituted many new agencies interested in managing the economy. The welfare state LBJ started began the individual competing with free government money, and we've had nothing but an explosion of regulations tied to taxes or grants thanks to these categories and the hope of managing an economy to utopia.
nxm 2y ago
Tarrifs exist to protect higher wage jobs here in the US. There are no tariffs on foreign makers as long as they produce the cars or truck in the US.
- jessriedel 2y ago
  “Completely due to” was meant in the sense of “fully reliant on” not “solely reliant on”. Tarrifs are not the only tool used, and US companies would simply not be allowed to fail, period.

throwawaymaths 2y ago

Moreover it's not clear how long china will be able to continue subsidizing the electric cars the way they do.

reaperman 2y ago
More subsidies than the $7,500 per vehicle subsidy that the US government gives for our EV vehicles?
- ywvcbk 2y ago
  To be fair you can’t really use this type of subsidy for price dumping in foreign markets like China is doing in Europe and would love to do as well in the US.
- nxm 2y ago
  Wages and hence manufacturing costs are higher in the US
yosefk 2y ago
are you sure they are subsidizing them and not simply producing them more cheaply?
- iamacyborg 2y ago
  China are subsidising the entire supply chain. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_3231 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_...
- throwawaymaths 2y ago
  It's a moot point. China won't be able to continue to do this for much longer.

Geezus_42 2y ago

I mean, we already nailed them out once.

Aromasin 2y ago

For those who aren't aware it's a 25% tarrif, so most manufacturers don't bother even trying to sell in the US. That's why almost all European/Japanese brand cars are 30+ years old over there. I find it entertaining when my US colleague come visit and are amazed at all the options. I drive a new Toyota Hilux, and they weren't even aware they made them anymore. For a country that once prided itself on being the land of the free market capitalist, it's a shame the decision makers are so scared now of competition.

xattt 2y ago
Back in the 2000s, VW released the Sirroco. I was graduating from uni, and it looked like the perfect car for me. I would have moved heaven and earth to own one. Alas, VW hemmed and hawed on homologation for North America and ultimately, it did not happen. I do wish we had EU-level options here.
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
  ? You mean the Scirocco that's been around since the 70's? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Scirocco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Scirocco
  - cbm-vic-20 2y ago
    The US never got the 3rd gen models. There were plenty of 2nd gen models back in the day, but they're getting a bit old- I haven't seen one on the road for many years.
  - xattt 2y ago
    Apologies for the typo. I should have rephrased it as “re-released”. Third-gen didn’t make it to North America because it would have eaten away at the Golf/Rabbit market share.
ThunderSizzle 2y ago
We haven't been the land of the free in a while, but we repeat it enough and then keep electing the uniparty in to keep it moving. Itjumped significantly when the Federal Reserve was founded, backed by a national and originally-unconstitutional unapportioned direct income tax to feed it money. DC suddenly had a way to tax anyone and everyone without repercussions. Then FDR played with fascism and instituted many new agencies interested in managing the economy. The welfare state LBJ started began the individual competing with free government money, and we've had nothing but an explosion of regulations tied to taxes or grants thanks to these categories and the hope of managing an economy to utopia.

nxm 2y ago

Tarrifs exist to protect higher wage jobs here in the US. There are no tariffs on foreign makers as long as they produce the cars or truck in the US.

jessriedel 2y ago
“Completely due to” was meant in the sense of “fully reliant on” not “solely reliant on”. Tarrifs are not the only tool used, and US companies would simply not be allowed to fail, period.