10 ms·

Mozilla has fired their Chief Product Officer after cancer diagnosis

190 points by indrora 2y ago

bbor 2y ago
Wow, WILD story. Any armchair lawyers around to fill me in on the legality of firing someone in retaliation for suing you for discrimination…? The details are here, he posted this link a while back: https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-the-firefox-maker-alleging-discrimination-after-cancer-diagnosis/ https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-th... With some crazy quotes; On April 24, the suit says, Mozilla formally proposed to demote Teixeira to senior vice president of technology strategy, with a 40% reduction in total compensation. He declined to accept the role change. He had not requested additional flexibility related to his diagnosis, the suit says. The suit alleges that Chambers [new CEO] pressed ahead, informing other Mozilla leaders about the demotion, and telling Teixeira’s direct reports that “it would be tough for him to continue to run a large team because of his health,” despite lacking his consent to share information about his health with others inside the company. A) that’s a pretty slam-dunk case if they have witnesses to testify she said such things, and B) you can “decline to accept” a demotion?? I gotta try that next time!
- cwbriscoe 2y ago
  On your B) It seems according to 15 minutes of research, it varies a bit on circumstance and where you live but it can be considered "constructive dismissal" in some places. You may be eligible for severance or unemployment if you refuse the demotion. Of course, IAMNAL etc...
  - b112 2y ago
    This varies a lot on region, and even (for example in Canada) provincial jurisdiction, but I agree at the core this is a match. I've seen constructive dismissal discussed for even adding on-call to someone who was hired without on-call requirements, unilaterally. The logic being "You're suddenly asking me to be paged at any time when on call, that wasn't part of the job description", and it is paramount to effectively "firing and re-hiring" a person in another role without their permission. Why I mention legal jurisdictions, and the above example, is because some US states are 'at will' employment states. In such a state, you can just fire anyone at any time, and thus the whole "fired and re-hired" thing doesn't kick in... as the 'fire' part is a-ok. People have contracts in such states, typically, especially at a CPO executive level. So I really wonder here, will this be more about breach of contract? (Of course, there are other issues. The disclosure of medical info... that's just bizarre, and smacks of massive inexperience and lack of judgement, if true)
  - worble 2y ago
    I don't know exactly how it works in the states, but I'm assuming you still sign a contract when accepting a job? That contract has all sorts on it, often including job title, expected responsibilities, work hours, etc. If a company decides to change that then you must agree to the new contract, or they risk legal action. If you don't then their options are keep you where you are or fire you, and of course firing someone is it's own minefield, as shown here.
    - deafpolygon 2y ago
      Contracts? In the states? Haha.. that's a good one.
      - mosselman 2y ago
        Wait what? No employment contract?? Can you unpack this a little bit?
        alwa 2y ago
        I uh… USians don’t do those. When they do, it tends to be a one-sided kind of thing to protect the company’s interests—NDAs, codes of conduct, accept our policies today and whatever we change them to in the future, that sort of thing. Most places, work happens at the whim of the employer (and, for what little it’s worth, the whim of the employee): employment is “at-will,” states are “right-to-work,” and so on. Don’t know about others, but I’ve never once in my life signed a contract to work in the US.
        meindnoch 2y ago
        Wtf? So how do you know your current salary? How do you know your work hours?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        2y ago
- adityaathalyo 2y ago
  [flagged]
- bartread 2y ago
  This is one of the shittiest pieces of behaviour by an employer I've ever read about. Just awful. Whilst this will make the square root of no difference, I don't want to support Mozilla with this sort of behaviour going on, so what do I do for a web browser now? I switched back to Firefox as my main browser some years ago because, well, Google and privacy concerns related to them. What now? Brave is dicey. Opera? SeaMonkey (which I think may nowadays be independent of Mozilla)? The thing is I do a lot of web development so I need a browser that offers an at least decent developer experience on macOS.
  - ZunarJ5 2y ago
    Ladybird
    - shafyy 2y ago
      Sure but Ladybird won't be released before Summer 2026...
      - cholantesh 2y ago
        Is the source not available to build a preview today?
        shafyy 2y ago
        Might be, but I doubt that it is a full-time replacement for a mature browser like Firefox today.
  - r-w 2y ago
    Brave with the shady features switched off. There’s still some privacy burden on the user, but it’s no comparison with Chrome and they’re pushing the envelope on privacy in other aspects. Firefox forks are another option, depending on your reasons for avoiding the original.
    - akimbostrawman 2y ago
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  In Norway this is flatly illegal and the relevant government department would probably get involved. Here in Norway companies are legally required to make accommodations for people who fall ill in order to keep them working, so the new CEO would definitely be in the wrong regardless of whether such additional flexibility had actually been requested. > B) you can “decline to accept” a demotion?? You probably can't simply decline it but you can certainly argue against it and if necessary sue in the courts depending on what your employment contract says. If he resigns then I think under UK law it is arguable that it is constructive dismissal: "Constructive dismissal Constructive dismissal is when you’re forced to leave your job against your will because of your employer’s conduct. The reasons you leave your job must be serious, for example, they: - do not pay you or suddenly demote you for no reason - force you to accept unreasonable changes to how you work - for example, tell you to work night shifts when your contract is only for day work - let other employees harass or bully you " https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructive-dismissal https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructive-dismiss...
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  While evil, it's common corporate practice (in the US) to get rid of new mothers and employees with deteriorating health, largely by looking for or fabricating trivial excuses to justify their termination. Corporate HR departments excel at finding legal excuses to dodge liability.
- greatgib 2y ago
  For B), in addition with the fact that a company can't reduce your title or compensation as agreed in your employment contract without your agreement, I can easily guess that in this case it was a proposition of change to accommodate for his health condition. That it looks like that he refused as the proposition looks unsolicited.
jamesy0ung 2y ago
How hard would it be for Firefox to exist on it's own without Mozilla? I don't like Mozilla.
- re-thc 2y ago
  > How hard would it be for Firefox to exist on it's own without Mozilla? It exists due to Google's funding. Mozilla barely makes much else otherwise. So not very hard, assuming Google continues to sponsor it.
  - teruakohatu 2y ago
    > It exists due to Google's funding. Mozilla barely makes much else otherwise. Does Mozilla breakdown what % of Google revenue is going towards Firefox development?
    - re-thc 2y ago
      > what % ~80%
      - teruakohatu 2y ago
        In 2021 they had 600m in revenue and spent 199m on software development. I am not sure if they break software development out to Firefox and all the other things (eg. Pocket). So at least in 2021 at best it was 30% of revenue on developing Firefox. They spent 30m on marketing and branding. https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-2021-fs-final-1010.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-202...
        kaoD 2y ago
        I'm on mobile and this PDF is notoriously hard to navigate here. What did they spend the other $370m on!?
        2y ago
daghamm 2y ago
Mozilla has an open source product, but a SF startups work plan and a NY hedgefunds ethics. Maybe I should donate some time and money to Ladybird...
- coldtea 2y ago
  >Mozilla has an open source product, but a SF startups work plan and a NY hedgefunds ethics Plus early 2010s Nokia management.
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    Painfully true
- Onavo 2y ago
  Support Brave if you really want to stick it to them. Brave was founded by ousted Mozillians.
  - fire_lake 2y ago
    Brave is a Chromium fork though?
    - speerer 2y ago
      Different stick; just as pointy.
      - gatlin 2y ago
        But I don't want a pointy stick, I want a program that loads web pages securely and quickly and doesn't log my browsing habits and sell them to advertisers.
        BrendanEich 2y ago
        We don't log anything. Chrome does, but Google doesn't sell it to advertisers, Google hoards the data for its own business interests, at best renting API ad matching access to slices of your data.
1GZ0 2y ago
Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better if Mozilla wasn't a thing anymore.
- ElonChrist 2y ago
  [dead]
- creshal 2y ago
  Mozilla-the-company really has no justification for its continued existence, but Mozilla-the-open-source-project is still rather neat. It's a shame the former completely captured the latter.
  - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
    Mozilla isn't an open source project. Firefox, Thunderbird, and Bugzilla are moz projects.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
elashri 2y ago
In related topic, Do people usually tell their employer about a diagnosis like that if they don't ask for special accommodation? I know that cancer would probably require adjustment in general (Not in this case according to the court case here) but I am talking in general terms. My prayers goes to steve for a healthy recovery.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- atoav 2y ago
  A Co-worker of mine recently died of cancer, before that there was a long period within which she clearly had a different deal then most of us, but generally it was not known that she had cancer. As I understood it she was not legally required to disclose the illness to her employer (Germany), nor was her employer legally allowed to ask.
- xnorswap 2y ago
  Yes, of course. If I worked somewhere I didn't feel I could tell my employer, it would demonstrate a lack of trust and a toxic relationship. I wouldn't want to work there. I typically disclose it during interview, and disclose even to recruiters that I need a day off or two once a month for health reasons. ( I don't tend to go into details until later in interview if I feel like it's going well. ) Does it close some doors? Yes, absolutely. I had one recruiter tell me that their client was "startup-y" so perhaps I "wouldn't have the stamina" for it. I insisted I was very capable, but they made their excuses (they lied that they'd send through the job spec) and left. But that's their loss.
  - consf 2y ago
    [dead]
  - ponector 2y ago
    Such a weird place to live where you are asking permission to get a day off for health reasons. In EU you just go and take a sick leave from the doctor, no one at work needs to know what health issue you have.
wtcactus 2y ago
For a company so focused on the “Diversity and Inclusion” trope [1] this seems highly hypocritical of Mozilla. I would really like it for them to spell it out what DEI means for them, because, it’s clear it’s not about being inclusive with people like Steve Teixeira. I hope Steve wins the case in the courts and receives a hefty compensation that includes Mozilla paying for all his medical expenses and several years of wages. [1] https://blog.mozilla.org/careers/ https://blog.mozilla.org/careers/
- dijit 2y ago
  As a general rule, DEI proponents forget that a lot of the authoritarianism around speech and specific desired social behaviour directly interferes with severely autistic people. Often the people who are fervently in favour of DEI initiatives (rather than in a relaxed way, like ordinary people who wish for equity and inclusion) will make the accommodations only if that person is labelled, diagnosed and if they don't behave “like an asshole”. The annoying thing is that Autism itself is a disorder, largely because the people suffering find it difficult to follow social cues, steer away from taboo subjects and are largely “too honest”. Which to people who did not grow up with Autists (I did) will seem like they’re “being assholes”. I find this to be the highest form of hypocrisy, as disorders such as high levels of autism are expressly considered a part of DEI initiatives and DEI branding, and some fervent DEI supporters will cosplay Autism- when in reality, like all people, they’re on the spectrum but not severely impacted. I find it hard to take this group seriously when they so blatantly disregard broader, universal, accommodations around reading speech charitably to include people so supposedly core to their endeavours. Sidenote: Often those who are loudest here are the least likely to try to understand; I’m 100% certain they will downvote this rather than telling me I am wrong, because I’m not wrong and it makes them uncomfortable.
  - hbrav 2y ago
    I believe you mean "social cues", not "queues".
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
lawn 2y ago
Mozilla is appalling. Not only are the disgusting people in charge running Firefox towards a slow decay into obscurity, they're also treating their fellow human beings as garbage. Not surprising, but still. I can't wait for Ladybird and the Servo web browser to mature so I can distance myself from this garbage company. (No, Chrome-based browsers aren't a compelling alternative and I don't use Apple devices.)
- dijit 2y ago
  You might not use Safari, but webkit is open source still and used by a few browsers. I was about to suggest Midori, but it seems that it’s a firefox derivative now. :/
  - sandwichmonger 2y ago
    Why are all the good browsers giving up all the hard work and good quality to become skins of bad browsers? Opera was a major fatality in this area.
    - School-Cotton 2y ago
      Because maintaining a modern browser engine is a huge amount of work that only major companies can afford.
develatio 2y ago
[flagged]
yard2010 2y ago
[flagged]
sandwichmonger 2y ago
Mozilla is inching ever closer to Google ethics. First them removing compact mode and the nice, clean interface, then them moving towards advertising "[looking to hire someone] passionate about display advertising in Mozilla products", then starting to abandon the whole reason they exist (https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/12/remember-when-mozilla-made-a-web-browser/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/12/remember-when-mozilla-made-...), and now this kind of shit.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  Mozilla is essentially just a sock puppet for Google. It’s where a ton of their funding comes from and Google funds them if only to say “hey look there’s another browser” (re: antitrust). Mozilla, the company, has been a dumpster fire for a long time.
elp 2y ago
On the face of it this is appalling. I don't suppose anyone inside of Mozilla would like to comment (anonymously obviously) ?
Dalewyn 2y ago
I had to witness my mother suffer through stage 4 gastric cancer before inevitably passing away. My grandma on my mother's side also passed from gastric cancer, and my grandpa on my mother's side suffered from complications of colorectal cancer though he fortunately survived it. So if this story is true, believe me when I say with the utmost conviction that Mozilla is fucking evil.
- CyberDildonics 2y ago
  [flagged]
andyjohnson0 2y ago
On the face of it this is another example of poor behaviour by Mozilla. Is there something about the organisation's set-up that encourages this? An inexperienced CEO out of their depth? Article should maybe point straight to the Geekwire piece at [1]. [1] https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-the-firefox-maker-alleging-discrimination-after-cancer-diagnosis/ https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-th...
consf 2y ago
[dead]
fredski42 2y ago
Everybody here seem to have strong opinions on the employer without having heard anything about their side on this.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  Probably because Mozilla has burned any goodwill in the community that they had left long ago.
- ParetoOptimal 2y ago
  Good. Corporations should be held to a higher burden of proof, especially with their track record.
wobfan 2y ago
This is the day where I ditch Firefox, finally. Whether completely correct or not, the official communication on this from Mozilla sounds not friendly at all, everything that Teixeira says points to a very "evil" company management, and their actions and proposed goals that they've announced over the last years also don't align with what I would wish to hear and see from such a company. I remember when I decided to fully ditch Google, and today it'll be Mozilla. It's a fucking shame - a company that I've placed A LOT of hope in some years ago.
- mysterydip 2y ago
  So what browser are you using? I'm in the same boat, but all I see is chrome clones.
  - SSLy 2y ago
    just swap to one of the clean-up soft-forks, like LibreWolf
    - mmh0000 2y ago
      I get the idealism, but now you're just using Firefox, which has been bastardized and introduces more annoyances (and privacy, but privacy comes with annoyances...). Privacy, like security, is a trade-off between being easy to use and painfully annoying. Firefox tends towards the "easy-to-use" side, while things like LibreWorld slide to the "painful" side. That's not a bad thing, but most users won't want to deal with it. In the end, you're still supporting Firefox, which is really just Google in a clown costume. TL;DR: We need more browser engine choice.
  - wobfan 2y ago
    Just as the other commenter said, I think for a start I will switch to LibreWolf or Waterfox, probably the first, as it's more focused on privacy and seems to be the safer bet. Completely ditching the Firefox core browser is probably not really possible. I'm not 100% sure how comparable the degoogled Chromium's are to something like LibreWolf, but something in me just doesn't want to switch to anything Google related again. My hopes are in something completely new, something that Firefox once was, like a browser built from Servo (which was a Mozilla project, https://servo.org/ https://servo.org/), or Ladybird. But until they're ready to use for day-to-day-use we got to wait some more years, I fear.
eska 2y ago
I’ve tolerated their corruption and incompetence, but downright evil I cannot condone. Fuck it, might as well uninstall firefox and install chrome (despite knowing about its issues). I won’t bother with Mozilla anymore.
o999 2y ago
Remember that this is one side of the story, and since there is a lawsuit, we might want to wait for its results before jumping into conclusions
- krick 2y ago
  Honestly, even as it is, I am not very much impressed. I feel like the most of the reaction here is... artificial? I mean, look at him, poor guy, he has cancer, of course we should side with him against evil Mozilla. All these statements that "I am finally ditching Firefox" despite that nothing really has changed are just virtue signaling. Many of the firefox-ditchers in this comments section cannot even properly tell, what they are ditching it for. They just support all good against all evil. I never liked Mozilla leadership in many, many years. It never was the point, really. The only thing that matters always was Firefox, and the only real question was if there is anything better. I don't claim to have an answer to that question (let's just say there were multiple occasions when I considered switching, but never did), but I can tell you for sure, whatever it is, it couldn't have changed because of this guy's demise. Siding with him feels kinda ironic in a way. It was unsightly when it was about Brendan Eich or servo team, because these are technical people, who created something of value, which is why Mozilla exist. But this guy is basically the very same "evil Mozilla leadership" who only turned out on the bottom side of the internal corporate games. He isn't the one who created Firefox, or JavaScript, or Rust, or anything. He worked in Microsoft for 14 years, not in Mozilla. I'm not even sure I can recollect, how exactly Firefox changed in the past 2 years (except for Translate button, this was nice). Which is probably a good sign, but still, I don't know any reason to cheer for this guy. He is just a dude with cancer, that's basically his only "defence". Defence against... being demoted? Oh, come on. I wonder if his compensation decreased by 40% is less than the total cost of the former Servo team. (And just by the way, the fact I am constantly mentioning Servo doesn't mean I am blaming Mozilla for that decision. It surely wasn't nice, but it is understandable. Firefox is free to use, never financially viable, doesn't have any plans to become financially viable. It is a miracle of sorts that Google still agrees to sponsor them.) And having something like this in his defence speech: > He questioned the need for the layoffs and raised concerns about the potential to disproportionately impact women and people of color Well, it surely doesn't make me more sympathetic.
josefritzishere 2y ago
wow
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
woodskelly 2y ago
[dead]

190 points by indrora 2y ago

bbor 2y ago

Wow, WILD story. Any armchair lawyers around to fill me in on the legality of firing someone in retaliation for suing you for discrimination…? The details are here, he posted this link a while back: https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-the-firefox-maker-alleging-discrimination-after-cancer-diagnosis/ https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-th... With some crazy quotes; On April 24, the suit says, Mozilla formally proposed to demote Teixeira to senior vice president of technology strategy, with a 40% reduction in total compensation. He declined to accept the role change. He had not requested additional flexibility related to his diagnosis, the suit says. The suit alleges that Chambers [new CEO] pressed ahead, informing other Mozilla leaders about the demotion, and telling Teixeira’s direct reports that “it would be tough for him to continue to run a large team because of his health,” despite lacking his consent to share information about his health with others inside the company. A) that’s a pretty slam-dunk case if they have witnesses to testify she said such things, and B) you can “decline to accept” a demotion?? I gotta try that next time!

cwbriscoe 2y ago
On your B) It seems according to 15 minutes of research, it varies a bit on circumstance and where you live but it can be considered "constructive dismissal" in some places. You may be eligible for severance or unemployment if you refuse the demotion. Of course, IAMNAL etc...
- b112 2y ago
  This varies a lot on region, and even (for example in Canada) provincial jurisdiction, but I agree at the core this is a match. I've seen constructive dismissal discussed for even adding on-call to someone who was hired without on-call requirements, unilaterally. The logic being "You're suddenly asking me to be paged at any time when on call, that wasn't part of the job description", and it is paramount to effectively "firing and re-hiring" a person in another role without their permission. Why I mention legal jurisdictions, and the above example, is because some US states are 'at will' employment states. In such a state, you can just fire anyone at any time, and thus the whole "fired and re-hired" thing doesn't kick in... as the 'fire' part is a-ok. People have contracts in such states, typically, especially at a CPO executive level. So I really wonder here, will this be more about breach of contract? (Of course, there are other issues. The disclosure of medical info... that's just bizarre, and smacks of massive inexperience and lack of judgement, if true)
- worble 2y ago
  I don't know exactly how it works in the states, but I'm assuming you still sign a contract when accepting a job? That contract has all sorts on it, often including job title, expected responsibilities, work hours, etc. If a company decides to change that then you must agree to the new contract, or they risk legal action. If you don't then their options are keep you where you are or fire you, and of course firing someone is it's own minefield, as shown here.
  - deafpolygon 2y ago
    Contracts? In the states? Haha.. that's a good one.
    - mosselman 2y ago
      Wait what? No employment contract?? Can you unpack this a little bit?
      - alwa 2y ago
        I uh… USians don’t do those. When they do, it tends to be a one-sided kind of thing to protect the company’s interests—NDAs, codes of conduct, accept our policies today and whatever we change them to in the future, that sort of thing. Most places, work happens at the whim of the employer (and, for what little it’s worth, the whim of the employee): employment is “at-will,” states are “right-to-work,” and so on. Don’t know about others, but I’ve never once in my life signed a contract to work in the US.
        meindnoch 2y ago
        Wtf? So how do you know your current salary? How do you know your work hours?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        2y ago
adityaathalyo 2y ago
[flagged]
bartread 2y ago
This is one of the shittiest pieces of behaviour by an employer I've ever read about. Just awful. Whilst this will make the square root of no difference, I don't want to support Mozilla with this sort of behaviour going on, so what do I do for a web browser now? I switched back to Firefox as my main browser some years ago because, well, Google and privacy concerns related to them. What now? Brave is dicey. Opera? SeaMonkey (which I think may nowadays be independent of Mozilla)? The thing is I do a lot of web development so I need a browser that offers an at least decent developer experience on macOS.
- ZunarJ5 2y ago
  Ladybird
  - shafyy 2y ago
    Sure but Ladybird won't be released before Summer 2026...
    - cholantesh 2y ago
      Is the source not available to build a preview today?
      - shafyy 2y ago
        Might be, but I doubt that it is a full-time replacement for a mature browser like Firefox today.
- r-w 2y ago
  Brave with the shady features switched off. There’s still some privacy burden on the user, but it’s no comparison with Chrome and they’re pushing the envelope on privacy in other aspects. Firefox forks are another option, depending on your reasons for avoiding the original.
  - akimbostrawman 2y ago
kwhitefoot 2y ago
In Norway this is flatly illegal and the relevant government department would probably get involved. Here in Norway companies are legally required to make accommodations for people who fall ill in order to keep them working, so the new CEO would definitely be in the wrong regardless of whether such additional flexibility had actually been requested. > B) you can “decline to accept” a demotion?? You probably can't simply decline it but you can certainly argue against it and if necessary sue in the courts depending on what your employment contract says. If he resigns then I think under UK law it is arguable that it is constructive dismissal: "Constructive dismissal Constructive dismissal is when you’re forced to leave your job against your will because of your employer’s conduct. The reasons you leave your job must be serious, for example, they: - do not pay you or suddenly demote you for no reason - force you to accept unreasonable changes to how you work - for example, tell you to work night shifts when your contract is only for day work - let other employees harass or bully you " https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructive-dismissal https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructive-dismiss...
hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
While evil, it's common corporate practice (in the US) to get rid of new mothers and employees with deteriorating health, largely by looking for or fabricating trivial excuses to justify their termination. Corporate HR departments excel at finding legal excuses to dodge liability.
greatgib 2y ago
For B), in addition with the fact that a company can't reduce your title or compensation as agreed in your employment contract without your agreement, I can easily guess that in this case it was a proposition of change to accommodate for his health condition. That it looks like that he refused as the proposition looks unsolicited.

jamesy0ung 2y ago

How hard would it be for Firefox to exist on it's own without Mozilla? I don't like Mozilla.

re-thc 2y ago
> How hard would it be for Firefox to exist on it's own without Mozilla? It exists due to Google's funding. Mozilla barely makes much else otherwise. So not very hard, assuming Google continues to sponsor it.
- teruakohatu 2y ago
  > It exists due to Google's funding. Mozilla barely makes much else otherwise. Does Mozilla breakdown what % of Google revenue is going towards Firefox development?
  - re-thc 2y ago
    > what % ~80%
    - teruakohatu 2y ago
      In 2021 they had 600m in revenue and spent 199m on software development. I am not sure if they break software development out to Firefox and all the other things (eg. Pocket). So at least in 2021 at best it was 30% of revenue on developing Firefox. They spent 30m on marketing and branding. https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-2021-fs-final-1010.pdf https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2021/mozilla-fdn-202...
      - kaoD 2y ago
        I'm on mobile and this PDF is notoriously hard to navigate here. What did they spend the other $370m on!?
        2y ago

daghamm 2y ago

Mozilla has an open source product, but a SF startups work plan and a NY hedgefunds ethics. Maybe I should donate some time and money to Ladybird...

coldtea 2y ago
>Mozilla has an open source product, but a SF startups work plan and a NY hedgefunds ethics Plus early 2010s Nokia management.
- raverbashing 2y ago
  Painfully true
Onavo 2y ago
Support Brave if you really want to stick it to them. Brave was founded by ousted Mozillians.
- fire_lake 2y ago
  Brave is a Chromium fork though?
  - speerer 2y ago
    Different stick; just as pointy.
    - gatlin 2y ago
      But I don't want a pointy stick, I want a program that loads web pages securely and quickly and doesn't log my browsing habits and sell them to advertisers.
      - BrendanEich 2y ago
        We don't log anything. Chrome does, but Google doesn't sell it to advertisers, Google hoards the data for its own business interests, at best renting API ad matching access to slices of your data.

1GZ0 2y ago

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better if Mozilla wasn't a thing anymore.

ElonChrist 2y ago
[dead]
creshal 2y ago
Mozilla-the-company really has no justification for its continued existence, but Mozilla-the-open-source-project is still rather neat. It's a shame the former completely captured the latter.
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  Mozilla isn't an open source project. Firefox, Thunderbird, and Bugzilla are moz projects.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

elashri 2y ago

In related topic, Do people usually tell their employer about a diagnosis like that if they don't ask for special accommodation? I know that cancer would probably require adjustment in general (Not in this case according to the court case here) but I am talking in general terms. My prayers goes to steve for a healthy recovery.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
atoav 2y ago
A Co-worker of mine recently died of cancer, before that there was a long period within which she clearly had a different deal then most of us, but generally it was not known that she had cancer. As I understood it she was not legally required to disclose the illness to her employer (Germany), nor was her employer legally allowed to ask.
xnorswap 2y ago
Yes, of course. If I worked somewhere I didn't feel I could tell my employer, it would demonstrate a lack of trust and a toxic relationship. I wouldn't want to work there. I typically disclose it during interview, and disclose even to recruiters that I need a day off or two once a month for health reasons. ( I don't tend to go into details until later in interview if I feel like it's going well. ) Does it close some doors? Yes, absolutely. I had one recruiter tell me that their client was "startup-y" so perhaps I "wouldn't have the stamina" for it. I insisted I was very capable, but they made their excuses (they lied that they'd send through the job spec) and left. But that's their loss.
- consf 2y ago
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- ponector 2y ago
  Such a weird place to live where you are asking permission to get a day off for health reasons. In EU you just go and take a sick leave from the doctor, no one at work needs to know what health issue you have.

wtcactus 2y ago

For a company so focused on the “Diversity and Inclusion” trope [1] this seems highly hypocritical of Mozilla. I would really like it for them to spell it out what DEI means for them, because, it’s clear it’s not about being inclusive with people like Steve Teixeira. I hope Steve wins the case in the courts and receives a hefty compensation that includes Mozilla paying for all his medical expenses and several years of wages. [1] https://blog.mozilla.org/careers/ https://blog.mozilla.org/careers/

dijit 2y ago
As a general rule, DEI proponents forget that a lot of the authoritarianism around speech and specific desired social behaviour directly interferes with severely autistic people. Often the people who are fervently in favour of DEI initiatives (rather than in a relaxed way, like ordinary people who wish for equity and inclusion) will make the accommodations only if that person is labelled, diagnosed and if they don't behave “like an asshole”. The annoying thing is that Autism itself is a disorder, largely because the people suffering find it difficult to follow social cues, steer away from taboo subjects and are largely “too honest”. Which to people who did not grow up with Autists (I did) will seem like they’re “being assholes”. I find this to be the highest form of hypocrisy, as disorders such as high levels of autism are expressly considered a part of DEI initiatives and DEI branding, and some fervent DEI supporters will cosplay Autism- when in reality, like all people, they’re on the spectrum but not severely impacted. I find it hard to take this group seriously when they so blatantly disregard broader, universal, accommodations around reading speech charitably to include people so supposedly core to their endeavours. Sidenote: Often those who are loudest here are the least likely to try to understand; I’m 100% certain they will downvote this rather than telling me I am wrong, because I’m not wrong and it makes them uncomfortable.
- hbrav 2y ago
  I believe you mean "social cues", not "queues".
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

lawn 2y ago

Mozilla is appalling. Not only are the disgusting people in charge running Firefox towards a slow decay into obscurity, they're also treating their fellow human beings as garbage. Not surprising, but still. I can't wait for Ladybird and the Servo web browser to mature so I can distance myself from this garbage company. (No, Chrome-based browsers aren't a compelling alternative and I don't use Apple devices.)

dijit 2y ago
You might not use Safari, but webkit is open source still and used by a few browsers. I was about to suggest Midori, but it seems that it’s a firefox derivative now. :/
- sandwichmonger 2y ago
  Why are all the good browsers giving up all the hard work and good quality to become skins of bad browsers? Opera was a major fatality in this area.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    Because maintaining a modern browser engine is a huge amount of work that only major companies can afford.

develatio 2y ago

[flagged]

yard2010 2y ago

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sandwichmonger 2y ago

Mozilla is inching ever closer to Google ethics. First them removing compact mode and the nice, clean interface, then them moving towards advertising "[looking to hire someone] passionate about display advertising in Mozilla products", then starting to abandon the whole reason they exist (https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/12/remember-when-mozilla-made-a-web-browser/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/12/remember-when-mozilla-made-...), and now this kind of shit.

joshstrange 2y ago
Mozilla is essentially just a sock puppet for Google. It’s where a ton of their funding comes from and Google funds them if only to say “hey look there’s another browser” (re: antitrust). Mozilla, the company, has been a dumpster fire for a long time.

elp 2y ago

On the face of it this is appalling. I don't suppose anyone inside of Mozilla would like to comment (anonymously obviously) ?

Dalewyn 2y ago

I had to witness my mother suffer through stage 4 gastric cancer before inevitably passing away. My grandma on my mother's side also passed from gastric cancer, and my grandpa on my mother's side suffered from complications of colorectal cancer though he fortunately survived it. So if this story is true, believe me when I say with the utmost conviction that Mozilla is fucking evil.

CyberDildonics 2y ago
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andyjohnson0 2y ago

On the face of it this is another example of poor behaviour by Mozilla. Is there something about the organisation's set-up that encourages this? An inexperienced CEO out of their depth? Article should maybe point straight to the Geekwire piece at [1]. [1] https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-the-firefox-maker-alleging-discrimination-after-cancer-diagnosis/ https://www.geekwire.com/2024/mozillas-product-chief-sues-th...

consf 2y ago

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fredski42 2y ago

Everybody here seem to have strong opinions on the employer without having heard anything about their side on this.

joshstrange 2y ago
Probably because Mozilla has burned any goodwill in the community that they had left long ago.
ParetoOptimal 2y ago
Good. Corporations should be held to a higher burden of proof, especially with their track record.

wobfan 2y ago

This is the day where I ditch Firefox, finally. Whether completely correct or not, the official communication on this from Mozilla sounds not friendly at all, everything that Teixeira says points to a very "evil" company management, and their actions and proposed goals that they've announced over the last years also don't align with what I would wish to hear and see from such a company. I remember when I decided to fully ditch Google, and today it'll be Mozilla. It's a fucking shame - a company that I've placed A LOT of hope in some years ago.

mysterydip 2y ago
So what browser are you using? I'm in the same boat, but all I see is chrome clones.
- SSLy 2y ago
  just swap to one of the clean-up soft-forks, like LibreWolf
  - mmh0000 2y ago
    I get the idealism, but now you're just using Firefox, which has been bastardized and introduces more annoyances (and privacy, but privacy comes with annoyances...). Privacy, like security, is a trade-off between being easy to use and painfully annoying. Firefox tends towards the "easy-to-use" side, while things like LibreWorld slide to the "painful" side. That's not a bad thing, but most users won't want to deal with it. In the end, you're still supporting Firefox, which is really just Google in a clown costume. TL;DR: We need more browser engine choice.
- wobfan 2y ago
  Just as the other commenter said, I think for a start I will switch to LibreWolf or Waterfox, probably the first, as it's more focused on privacy and seems to be the safer bet. Completely ditching the Firefox core browser is probably not really possible. I'm not 100% sure how comparable the degoogled Chromium's are to something like LibreWolf, but something in me just doesn't want to switch to anything Google related again. My hopes are in something completely new, something that Firefox once was, like a browser built from Servo (which was a Mozilla project, https://servo.org/ https://servo.org/), or Ladybird. But until they're ready to use for day-to-day-use we got to wait some more years, I fear.

eska 2y ago

I’ve tolerated their corruption and incompetence, but downright evil I cannot condone. Fuck it, might as well uninstall firefox and install chrome (despite knowing about its issues). I won’t bother with Mozilla anymore.

o999 2y ago

Remember that this is one side of the story, and since there is a lawsuit, we might want to wait for its results before jumping into conclusions

krick 2y ago
Honestly, even as it is, I am not very much impressed. I feel like the most of the reaction here is... artificial? I mean, look at him, poor guy, he has cancer, of course we should side with him against evil Mozilla. All these statements that "I am finally ditching Firefox" despite that nothing really has changed are just virtue signaling. Many of the firefox-ditchers in this comments section cannot even properly tell, what they are ditching it for. They just support all good against all evil. I never liked Mozilla leadership in many, many years. It never was the point, really. The only thing that matters always was Firefox, and the only real question was if there is anything better. I don't claim to have an answer to that question (let's just say there were multiple occasions when I considered switching, but never did), but I can tell you for sure, whatever it is, it couldn't have changed because of this guy's demise. Siding with him feels kinda ironic in a way. It was unsightly when it was about Brendan Eich or servo team, because these are technical people, who created something of value, which is why Mozilla exist. But this guy is basically the very same "evil Mozilla leadership" who only turned out on the bottom side of the internal corporate games. He isn't the one who created Firefox, or JavaScript, or Rust, or anything. He worked in Microsoft for 14 years, not in Mozilla. I'm not even sure I can recollect, how exactly Firefox changed in the past 2 years (except for Translate button, this was nice). Which is probably a good sign, but still, I don't know any reason to cheer for this guy. He is just a dude with cancer, that's basically his only "defence". Defence against... being demoted? Oh, come on. I wonder if his compensation decreased by 40% is less than the total cost of the former Servo team. (And just by the way, the fact I am constantly mentioning Servo doesn't mean I am blaming Mozilla for that decision. It surely wasn't nice, but it is understandable. Firefox is free to use, never financially viable, doesn't have any plans to become financially viable. It is a miracle of sorts that Google still agrees to sponsor them.) And having something like this in his defence speech: > He questioned the need for the layoffs and raised concerns about the potential to disproportionately impact women and people of color Well, it surely doesn't make me more sympathetic.

josefritzishere 2y ago

wow

deleted 2y ago

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woodskelly 2y ago

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