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> the point for these countries is to not have a centralised record of where citizens live In the US, state DMVs effectively still know everybody's address, do

by lxgr 2y ago

> the point for these countries is to not have a centralised record of where citizens live In the US, state DMVs effectively still know everybody's address, don't they? And even if they wouldn't – that information is only one data broker query away in the US. I've recently experienced this by signing up for a financial company that, after entering only my phone number and SSN, presented me with my full address and asked me whether everything looks accurate. I understand that historically and value-wise, this is part of where the resistance to centralized government databases is coming from. But practically, they already exist. In the US, resistance against government ID for private contracts seems to come more from an intention of not wanting the government to be able to interfere with the right of people to legally transact with each other without government mandate or intervention. But even that resistance is largely over – I had to show my driver's license to every bank I ever opened an account with.

seszett 2y ago
That's what happens when government is regulated but companies aren't. The kind of process you describe is totally illegal and unheard of in the EU. In France banks also take utilities bills as proof of residence (but they also ask for id or passport to check your identity). ID cards do have an address as well as passports and driving licences, but even the government doesn't accept them as proof of residence because they're often out of date. In my case they all have different addresses and none of them has my current address. My Belgian ID though has to be reissued every time I move to a different municipality. Oh and regarding DMV having addresses yes, but (in France) they are indexed by a DMV-specific key that cannot easily be matched to another database, say social security or taxes (which also independently have addresses on most citizens). Driving license number, fiscal number, SSN, cannot legally be used anywhere else than with their respective services. There is of course the names that can be used, but no system is perfect I guess. Anyway these are just implementation details, but my point is that the EU has many different administrative systems and in at least some of them, utilities are the only legal proof of residence.

by lxgr 2y ago

seszett 2y ago

That's what happens when government is regulated but companies aren't. The kind of process you describe is totally illegal and unheard of in the EU. In France banks also take utilities bills as proof of residence (but they also ask for id or passport to check your identity). ID cards do have an address as well as passports and driving licences, but even the government doesn't accept them as proof of residence because they're often out of date. In my case they all have different addresses and none of them has my current address. My Belgian ID though has to be reissued every time I move to a different municipality. Oh and regarding DMV having addresses yes, but (in France) they are indexed by a DMV-specific key that cannot easily be matched to another database, say social security or taxes (which also independently have addresses on most citizens). Driving license number, fiscal number, SSN, cannot legally be used anywhere else than with their respective services. There is of course the names that can be used, but no system is perfect I guess. Anyway these are just implementation details, but my point is that the EU has many different administrative systems and in at least some of them, utilities are the only legal proof of residence.