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Strange Design Decision: An Oven with French Doors

12 points by surprisetalk 2y ago

pwg 2y ago
From TFA: > and I can't puzzle out how the arrangement improves matters. It allows the maker to compete on "style" rather than on practical features.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  Whereas the comments in the article point out that it's quite practical, I am not sure that style is the only thing going on here
unraveller 2y ago
when placed at head height a downward opening door would impede more for heavy items, even if split in half. Serving short customers is better as both tall & short people can move to either side easily. The split doors just saves room in small spaces and gives options.
- ghaff 2y ago
  That may be fair. For things that take up less than half the oven width there are probably some advantages to side-by-side though the photos don't do a great job of showing that. On the other hand, you don't want to make the oven look small and not capable of handling roasts.
ghaff 2y ago
I don't really understand the win with an oven. French doors IMO work very well in a refrigerator/freezer but the freezer compartment is obviously at a different temperature from the refrigerator. I find it does a much better job of giving visibility into things than my old side-by-side did.
- flkiwi 2y ago
  I have a narrow bungalow kitchen. Double doors on our full size oven would make it slightly easier for two people to navigate around during a busy prep. Conversely, double doors on our fridge interact poorly with one wall, meaning it is impossible to pull out two drawers to clean them or get at items in the far back. Oopsie.
  - hansvm 2y ago
    I don't think I've ever lived somewhere I didn't have to physically move the fridge to properly pull the drawers out and clean them.
deepfriedchokes 2y ago
This is a common design in commercial ovens. Pretty lazy writing.
- shermantanktop 2y ago
  The moneyed class who can afford fancy appliances appears to be cooking less and cooking simpler convenience foods which require little skill. Meanwhile their kitchens look more and more like a commercial restaurant kitchen. This appears to be at least a reasonable design for home use. But a 6 burner stovetop with a bazillion-BTU wok burner sitting under inadequate ventilation in a suburban palace where they eat lean cuisine every night…?
  - mattmaroon 2y ago
    I do wish I could reasonably get anything approaching commercial ventilation in my home. I don’t even need a full on hood (though what a dream it would be) but what I really want is a high power fan that’s mounted on the roof like with commercial hoods. Instead we have tiny, relatively low powered very loud fans. Also I die laughing when I see what home users spend on these commercial-looking (but very inferior) home ovens and refrigerators when they could get commercial ones that are better and frankly look similar for 1/4 of the price.
possibleworlds 2y ago
Oven doors are annoying, often requiring you to bend quite low or else drop them depending on placement. As a comment on the linked article mentions many commercial ovens feature this style of door.
throwaway984393 2y ago
This is literally designed to make the user's life easier. Regular toaster oven bottom hinges just CLUNK on the table. If you're not very careful when lowering or raising you can skim your hand or grab onto the hot part of the door. This allows you to slowly open it in a controlled manner, which both feels and is more secure, and works with the natural shape and orientation of the hand. Not to mention you can now install it in a raised position (above the table) without worrying about the top flopping down on you.
- albedoa 2y ago
  It's such a strange article. They had to go out of their way to miss the utility. My bet is that they figured it out eventually but didn't want to admit it and have to throw away content.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Agreed, this article is dumb. These doors are obviously a big improvement over a regular toaster oven door. They're even conveniently mechanically linked, so opening one opens them both, so you don't need both hands, or to fumble with two separate doors. What's not to like? The only possible problem I can see is that french doors are harder to seal, because of the gap between the doors. That's why they weren't used on refrigerators until recently, when they invented some ways to mitigate that.
miek 2y ago
Imagine the air fryer sitting on a counter with a depth of 2x the frye depth. If the door is single hinge (on side or bottom), then you cannot have anything sitting in anywhere in front of the fryer when you open the door (it will block the door).. with French doors, you can. With a full size oven in a very narrow kitchen, French doors would be similarly preferable.
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  It's also cooler
defrost 2y ago
At this point in life I've built a stupid number of "oven doors"; furnace doors for glass blowing, multi section glory hole doors, easy open | close doors for annealing ovens, etc. For an example of doors that level up past simple french doors, see: Glory hole with iris doors: https://old.reddit.com/r/toolgifs/comments/w61gra/glassblowing_furnace_with_an_iris_door/ https://old.reddit.com/r/toolgifs/comments/w61gra/glassblowi...
t0mas88 2y ago
Having it open horizontally instead of vertically makes it easier to put things in when it's placed higher. Otherwise you have to lift things with further extended arms at height which is harder. There are ovens that solve this by letting the door slide into the underside when opening: https://youtu.be/TsRGhdfJSBc https://youtu.be/TsRGhdfJSBc If you go with doors, two smaller doors make sense in a narrow kitchen.
kleton 2y ago
This one burns out quickly with regular daily use. Something near where the power cord comes in at the back.
silisili 2y ago
What's with the hate? Most oven doors open downwards, which necessitate having enough room to fold out a door of that size. Further, it means having to stand at the edge of the door and lean over, or else try to get at it from the side at an awkward angle. I don't buy the 'visibility obstruction' argument either, as most are poor to begin with and nearly impossible to see through with age and regular use. If anything, I now wish my cabinet mounted oven had french doors...
- freddie_mercury 2y ago
  I doubt it is "hate" so much as manufactured engagement bait. Which worked, since it got posted to HN despite the author of the article admitting they have no idea what they are talking about ("I have no experience").
mastazi 2y ago
As the top comment in the linked post says, "french doors" are very common in commercial ovens precisely because of their practicality. (That comment also includes a picture with an example of such oven).
MisterBastahrd 2y ago
The biggest impedance to putting something in / pulling something out of an oven is its door. French doors means that you can get as close to the oven as you need to without the physical obstruction directly in front of the thing you're attempting to interface with. Nobody is attempting to load an oven from the side. The article screams "I don't understand practical design."
jb1991 2y ago
This article is very great example of what happens when someone who has no experience in a particular topic area decides to provide their strong opinions on it.
- aaron695 2y ago
  [dead]
exabrial 2y ago
In France the just call them "doors"... typically
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  You guys have the best doors and drains.
mayoff 2y ago
I have this in-wall oven with French doors: https://www.bluestarcooking.com/cooking/ovens/30-electric-wall-oven-with-french-doors/ https://www.bluestarcooking.com/cooking/ovens/30-electric-wa... The French doors do make it easier to get stuff in and out. But for something that's essentially a countertop toaster oven, I don't think French doors make a whole lot of sense. My Breville countertop toaster oven has a normal fold-down door and I have never felt like it's getting in the way.
irrational 2y ago
> having two doors on the side means it requires a greater distance to pull the food out and clear the appliance, versus a bottom-hinged door. I don’t get this at all. Can someone explain it? It would be so much easier to pull food out with the French doors than the bottom-hinge door. At least, that is my thought based on my experience using bottom-hinge doors.

12 points by surprisetalk 2y ago

pwg 2y ago

From TFA: > and I can't puzzle out how the arrangement improves matters. It allows the maker to compete on "style" rather than on practical features.

readthenotes1 2y ago
Whereas the comments in the article point out that it's quite practical, I am not sure that style is the only thing going on here

unraveller 2y ago

when placed at head height a downward opening door would impede more for heavy items, even if split in half. Serving short customers is better as both tall & short people can move to either side easily. The split doors just saves room in small spaces and gives options.

ghaff 2y ago
That may be fair. For things that take up less than half the oven width there are probably some advantages to side-by-side though the photos don't do a great job of showing that. On the other hand, you don't want to make the oven look small and not capable of handling roasts.

ghaff 2y ago

I don't really understand the win with an oven. French doors IMO work very well in a refrigerator/freezer but the freezer compartment is obviously at a different temperature from the refrigerator. I find it does a much better job of giving visibility into things than my old side-by-side did.

flkiwi 2y ago
I have a narrow bungalow kitchen. Double doors on our full size oven would make it slightly easier for two people to navigate around during a busy prep. Conversely, double doors on our fridge interact poorly with one wall, meaning it is impossible to pull out two drawers to clean them or get at items in the far back. Oopsie.
- hansvm 2y ago
  I don't think I've ever lived somewhere I didn't have to physically move the fridge to properly pull the drawers out and clean them.

deepfriedchokes 2y ago

This is a common design in commercial ovens. Pretty lazy writing.

shermantanktop 2y ago
The moneyed class who can afford fancy appliances appears to be cooking less and cooking simpler convenience foods which require little skill. Meanwhile their kitchens look more and more like a commercial restaurant kitchen. This appears to be at least a reasonable design for home use. But a 6 burner stovetop with a bazillion-BTU wok burner sitting under inadequate ventilation in a suburban palace where they eat lean cuisine every night…?
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  I do wish I could reasonably get anything approaching commercial ventilation in my home. I don’t even need a full on hood (though what a dream it would be) but what I really want is a high power fan that’s mounted on the roof like with commercial hoods. Instead we have tiny, relatively low powered very loud fans. Also I die laughing when I see what home users spend on these commercial-looking (but very inferior) home ovens and refrigerators when they could get commercial ones that are better and frankly look similar for 1/4 of the price.

possibleworlds 2y ago

Oven doors are annoying, often requiring you to bend quite low or else drop them depending on placement. As a comment on the linked article mentions many commercial ovens feature this style of door.

throwaway984393 2y ago

This is literally designed to make the user's life easier. Regular toaster oven bottom hinges just CLUNK on the table. If you're not very careful when lowering or raising you can skim your hand or grab onto the hot part of the door. This allows you to slowly open it in a controlled manner, which both feels and is more secure, and works with the natural shape and orientation of the hand. Not to mention you can now install it in a raised position (above the table) without worrying about the top flopping down on you.

albedoa 2y ago
It's such a strange article. They had to go out of their way to miss the utility. My bet is that they figured it out eventually but didn't want to admit it and have to throw away content.
shiroiushi 2y ago
Agreed, this article is dumb. These doors are obviously a big improvement over a regular toaster oven door. They're even conveniently mechanically linked, so opening one opens them both, so you don't need both hands, or to fumble with two separate doors. What's not to like? The only possible problem I can see is that french doors are harder to seal, because of the gap between the doors. That's why they weren't used on refrigerators until recently, when they invented some ways to mitigate that.

miek 2y ago

Imagine the air fryer sitting on a counter with a depth of 2x the frye depth. If the door is single hinge (on side or bottom), then you cannot have anything sitting in anywhere in front of the fryer when you open the door (it will block the door).. with French doors, you can. With a full size oven in a very narrow kitchen, French doors would be similarly preferable.

IncreasePosts 2y ago
It's also cooler

defrost 2y ago

At this point in life I've built a stupid number of "oven doors"; furnace doors for glass blowing, multi section glory hole doors, easy open | close doors for annealing ovens, etc. For an example of doors that level up past simple french doors, see: Glory hole with iris doors: https://old.reddit.com/r/toolgifs/comments/w61gra/glassblowing_furnace_with_an_iris_door/ https://old.reddit.com/r/toolgifs/comments/w61gra/glassblowi...

t0mas88 2y ago

Having it open horizontally instead of vertically makes it easier to put things in when it's placed higher. Otherwise you have to lift things with further extended arms at height which is harder. There are ovens that solve this by letting the door slide into the underside when opening: https://youtu.be/TsRGhdfJSBc https://youtu.be/TsRGhdfJSBc If you go with doors, two smaller doors make sense in a narrow kitchen.

kleton 2y ago

This one burns out quickly with regular daily use. Something near where the power cord comes in at the back.

silisili 2y ago

What's with the hate? Most oven doors open downwards, which necessitate having enough room to fold out a door of that size. Further, it means having to stand at the edge of the door and lean over, or else try to get at it from the side at an awkward angle. I don't buy the 'visibility obstruction' argument either, as most are poor to begin with and nearly impossible to see through with age and regular use. If anything, I now wish my cabinet mounted oven had french doors...

freddie_mercury 2y ago
I doubt it is "hate" so much as manufactured engagement bait. Which worked, since it got posted to HN despite the author of the article admitting they have no idea what they are talking about ("I have no experience").

mastazi 2y ago

As the top comment in the linked post says, "french doors" are very common in commercial ovens precisely because of their practicality. (That comment also includes a picture with an example of such oven).

MisterBastahrd 2y ago

The biggest impedance to putting something in / pulling something out of an oven is its door. French doors means that you can get as close to the oven as you need to without the physical obstruction directly in front of the thing you're attempting to interface with. Nobody is attempting to load an oven from the side. The article screams "I don't understand practical design."

jb1991 2y ago

This article is very great example of what happens when someone who has no experience in a particular topic area decides to provide their strong opinions on it.

aaron695 2y ago
[dead]

exabrial 2y ago

In France the just call them "doors"... typically

mattmaroon 2y ago
You guys have the best doors and drains.

mayoff 2y ago

I have this in-wall oven with French doors: https://www.bluestarcooking.com/cooking/ovens/30-electric-wall-oven-with-french-doors/ https://www.bluestarcooking.com/cooking/ovens/30-electric-wa... The French doors do make it easier to get stuff in and out. But for something that's essentially a countertop toaster oven, I don't think French doors make a whole lot of sense. My Breville countertop toaster oven has a normal fold-down door and I have never felt like it's getting in the way.

irrational 2y ago

> having two doors on the side means it requires a greater distance to pull the food out and clear the appliance, versus a bottom-hinged door. I don’t get this at all. Can someone explain it? It would be so much easier to pull food out with the French doors than the bottom-hinge door. At least, that is my thought based on my experience using bottom-hinge doors.