4 ms·

This being a patent suit is very bizarre. Everyone was expecting a copyright lawsuit, if anything. I'm not a big fan of software patents, and it seems like they

This being a patent suit is very bizarre. Everyone was expecting a copyright lawsuit, if anything. I'm not a big fan of software patents, and it seems like they're only exercised as a convenient bludgeon against a rival, not based on something a company feels it legitimately invented.

maxk42 2y ago
Note that this suit was filed in Japan. Their laws may be very different from what most HN users are familiar with.
- forgotoldacc 2y ago
  Japanese laws pertaining to copyright/corporate rights in general can make the US look like a paradise of freedom. Another game company, Konami, is suing Cygames for--in short--having a system where characters compete and can be leveled up. Plus the concept of "fair use" technically kind of exists legally but not in practice. You sample something and the owner doesn't approve, you're screwed. You don't sample something but simply say something that lowers their reputation, you're screwed (the bar for "libel" is incredibly low--even facts can be successfully tried so long as it can be proven that the intention was to in some way lower a person or particularly a company's reputation). The last one is particularly funny since you'll see the media giving endless praise to a CEO/businessperson and treating them as Jesus 2.0, but the very day they die, the floodgates open and you find out they've committed every crime known to mankind and everyone around them knew it. Basically, Pocketpair is quite likely heavily screwed. Nintendo can attack them on several fronts and likely will. People saying they made a better Pokemon than Nintendo themselves probably angered a few people within the company and it's easier to take them out legally than to actually compete.
  - Jach 2y ago
    Given Nintendo's last lawsuit related to patents took several years and ended not with a court win or the game ever shut down during that time but with them getting a settlement, Pocketpair is likely fine. Pocketpair might have difficulties partnering with many businesses even outside of gaming in the future, since I've been led to believe the non-legal effects tend to matter quite a bit in Japan as well, but they have global appeal and can find foreign partners if they need to.
    - rincebrain 2y ago
      Which lawsuit was that?
      - Jach 2y ago
        Nintendo vs. Colopl
ClassyJacket 2y ago
What copyright did they infringe?
Loughla 2y ago
What makes software patents different than any other patent if it is a genuinely unique piece of software? Not a baited question, by the way. I don't understand why it would be different unless it's something like zooming in or copy and paste.
- hellzbellz123 2y ago
  not a lawyer but i write software so this is not 100% accurate information i have found on the internet and repeated back to me. further corrections are appreciated software patents usually don't contain source code. just the general idea of how to achieve the outcome, they can be very broad or very subjective depending on who is in court Patents Vs. Copyright: you can create software that does the same thing differently. kinda like torrenting vs direct download, they both deliver bytes too you but the bytes are delivered/received in very different ways. taking someones software/machine instructions (the bytes that are the code) and calling it your own is copyright infringment. if someone creates a new patented algorithm and you copy that algorithm into a different language then it is patent infrigement. also patents have too be filed and approved while copyright is generally a given if the copyright is not already existing (depending on your jurisdiction i guess)
  - Loughla 2y ago
    I'm not sure how that answers my question. But it's late and I can't sleep, so maybe I'm missing something?
- jappgar 2y ago
  I would argue the speed at which innovation occurs in software world means "original" work is happening in multiple places simultaneously. It's not fair to simply grant the first claim, especially considering how slow the patent system is. That, and that software is so easy to copy you could argue that not copying it greatly impedes technological advancement of your society. Especially in comparison with adversaries who will violate the patents freely.
  - Loughla 2y ago
ThrowawayR2 2y ago
Software patents are much worse for something fast evolving like video game mechanics were over the past 30 years or so. Imagine, for example, if id software had patented the first person shooter mechanics from Doom. It would have 20 years after that (2013) before anyone could offer a similar FPS and id would have been able to tack on incremental patents to extend their lock on the FPS market for decades longer.
- ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
  Or if BB King patented the blues scale
- komali2 2y ago
  Which might be why John Carmack threatened to quit if id ever tried to patent software.
  - failuser 2y ago
    Monolith patented their nemesis system, so it went nowhere. The thought that we were one personal stance away from the whole FPS genre not existing is pretty chilling.

maxk42 2y ago

Note that this suit was filed in Japan. Their laws may be very different from what most HN users are familiar with.

forgotoldacc 2y ago
Japanese laws pertaining to copyright/corporate rights in general can make the US look like a paradise of freedom. Another game company, Konami, is suing Cygames for--in short--having a system where characters compete and can be leveled up. Plus the concept of "fair use" technically kind of exists legally but not in practice. You sample something and the owner doesn't approve, you're screwed. You don't sample something but simply say something that lowers their reputation, you're screwed (the bar for "libel" is incredibly low--even facts can be successfully tried so long as it can be proven that the intention was to in some way lower a person or particularly a company's reputation). The last one is particularly funny since you'll see the media giving endless praise to a CEO/businessperson and treating them as Jesus 2.0, but the very day they die, the floodgates open and you find out they've committed every crime known to mankind and everyone around them knew it. Basically, Pocketpair is quite likely heavily screwed. Nintendo can attack them on several fronts and likely will. People saying they made a better Pokemon than Nintendo themselves probably angered a few people within the company and it's easier to take them out legally than to actually compete.
- Jach 2y ago
  Given Nintendo's last lawsuit related to patents took several years and ended not with a court win or the game ever shut down during that time but with them getting a settlement, Pocketpair is likely fine. Pocketpair might have difficulties partnering with many businesses even outside of gaming in the future, since I've been led to believe the non-legal effects tend to matter quite a bit in Japan as well, but they have global appeal and can find foreign partners if they need to.
  - rincebrain 2y ago
    Which lawsuit was that?
    - Jach 2y ago
      Nintendo vs. Colopl

ClassyJacket 2y ago

What copyright did they infringe?

Loughla 2y ago

What makes software patents different than any other patent if it is a genuinely unique piece of software? Not a baited question, by the way. I don't understand why it would be different unless it's something like zooming in or copy and paste.

hellzbellz123 2y ago
not a lawyer but i write software so this is not 100% accurate information i have found on the internet and repeated back to me. further corrections are appreciated software patents usually don't contain source code. just the general idea of how to achieve the outcome, they can be very broad or very subjective depending on who is in court Patents Vs. Copyright: you can create software that does the same thing differently. kinda like torrenting vs direct download, they both deliver bytes too you but the bytes are delivered/received in very different ways. taking someones software/machine instructions (the bytes that are the code) and calling it your own is copyright infringment. if someone creates a new patented algorithm and you copy that algorithm into a different language then it is patent infrigement. also patents have too be filed and approved while copyright is generally a given if the copyright is not already existing (depending on your jurisdiction i guess)
- Loughla 2y ago
  I'm not sure how that answers my question. But it's late and I can't sleep, so maybe I'm missing something?
jappgar 2y ago
I would argue the speed at which innovation occurs in software world means "original" work is happening in multiple places simultaneously. It's not fair to simply grant the first claim, especially considering how slow the patent system is. That, and that software is so easy to copy you could argue that not copying it greatly impedes technological advancement of your society. Especially in comparison with adversaries who will violate the patents freely.
- Loughla 2y ago

ThrowawayR2 2y ago

Software patents are much worse for something fast evolving like video game mechanics were over the past 30 years or so. Imagine, for example, if id software had patented the first person shooter mechanics from Doom. It would have 20 years after that (2013) before anyone could offer a similar FPS and id would have been able to tack on incremental patents to extend their lock on the FPS market for decades longer.

ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
Or if BB King patented the blues scale
komali2 2y ago
Which might be why John Carmack threatened to quit if id ever tried to patent software.
- failuser 2y ago
  Monolith patented their nemesis system, so it went nowhere. The thought that we were one personal stance away from the whole FPS genre not existing is pretty chilling.