7 ms·
iPhone 16 demand is so weak that employees can already buy it on discount
- mikestew 2y ago[flagged]
- snickell 2y agoI read that iPhone 12 & 13 minis had very low sales rates. Disappointing since I too am waiting for another mini to be released. I would have 100% bought an iPhone 16 mini.
- coef2 2y agoI’m the same way. I bought 12 and 13 minis and stopped upgrading my phone since then. I’d love to have a mini version with a good optical zoom camera.
- moscoe 2y agoHow does bogus clickbait trash like this make it to page 2…
- justusthane 2y agoI wish that this was seen as a good thing, not a bad thing. Everyone who wants an iPhone already has one, Apple makes good products that last, and new phones these days are incremental updates rather than revolutionary new products, so there’s not a large incentive to upgrade.
- RockRobotRock 2y agoI agree! People also criticize Apple harshly for not massively redesigning the iPhone every year. That's a positive in my view.
- gregoriol 2y agoThen they shouldn't release one every year.
- poincaredisk 2y agoWhy not? They can release a slightly improved version every year. I know that some people feel obliged to stay on the "latest version" and buy a new iphone every year, but it's their decision.
- gregoriol 2y agoIt would reduce this compulsive behaviour, reduce the waste of boxes and transport, reduce industrial complexity and costs.
- Terretta 2y agoTheir ability to manage the "industrial complexity" is an incredible competitive advantage, and means than in consumer comparisons among flagship models, theirs is rarely behind. This would not be the case if they had every other year releases, that would leave the off years open to attack by, say, Samsung, "Why buy last year's phone when you can get a current model?" It doesn't mean consumers are or have to update every year, it's about having something up to date when the consumer goes phone shopping. As for reducing compulsive behavior, nobody's forcing anyone to update. If one looks beneath the glass, Apple generally updates on a "tick tock" (more obvious when every other model was called "S"). Look back at the S years, and you see those generally tried out the new camera systems and other non-phone internals, while the integer models were the phone capability updates. Folks more interested in the camera or processing tended to upgrade on S years, folks wanting "new" designs or looking for mobile (radio) updates tended to upgrade on integer years. Apple still does this, though a less clear tick tock, and are now cascading these features. Think of it as a kind of "canary" release channel, with the "Pro" features being constrained production till it ramps, and those same features can go in the next cycle's base model (as made clear across the 14, 15, and 16 models' feature cascade. Once they have this cascade flowing, it allows a much longer subcomponent life cycle (as the subcomponents can be used across multiple generations without having to do a repackage. That's fantastic for reducing waste reduction, industrial complexity, defraying costs across many model years, all the things you say you want. Automobiles do a similar thing with their "platforms" that change slowly and are used across models or even across badges, even as "model years" refresh each year. It's far more efficient for both pre-assembly and post sale supply chains.
- maximus-decimus 2y agoI bought a note 8 6 years ago and honestly, I don't see why I would ever need anything better than that. We've reached peak phone a long time ago.
- psb217 2y agoMostly to keep up with website/app bloat, and better cameras if you like taking photos or videos. Other improvements like better screens or battery life are nice too, but only really noticeable if you're jumping a few phone generations at a time.
- ornornor 2y agoAlso, paying 1000+$ for a… phone is insane when you think about it.
- mostlysimilar 2y agoNot a phone, a mobile computer with a lot of connectivity, senors, compute power, etc.
- hu3 2y agoiPhone? A very restricted mobile computer. You can barely choose what software runs on it.
- ornornor 2y agoNevertheless, it is a lot of money to ask for something you will drop, break, lose, replace in a couple of years because its battery has failed. And you can’t even really do what you want with it.
- Gud 2y agoDefine “a couple of years”. I am using an iPhone 11 Pro and only just now am I upgrading to a 16 pro, mostly for the camera. The phone itself still works well, including the battery.
- ornornor 2y agoMost iPhone users keep their phones less than three years: https://9to5mac.com/2023/05/10/how-long-people-keep-iphones/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/05/10/how-long-people-keep-iphones/ I’m also buying used iPhones and keeping them longer than that but we’re outliers.
- dkobia 2y agoThe iPhone, and really, most phones today, are pretty amazing pieces of technology in a glass slab. Expecting phenomenal changes between versions at this point might be asking for too much. Apple stuck itself in a corner with "stock" driven development.
- aetherspawn 2y agoWhy would I upgrade though — my $2K 13 Pro is still state of the art, and tech jobs are collapsing. Who knows whether I’ll need $2K in 3 months time?
- onetokeoverthe 2y ago[dead]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- zalyh 2y agoDamn, are you me? My thoughts exactly. My 13PM is plenty good. And with all the layoffs that keep happening, imma save that money.
- aetherspawn 2y agoI think that we have now crossed some kind of threshold where processors and hardware in general are getting better at a rate faster than we can make our software more advanced (or bloated, whatever) to counter it. Thus, hardware upgrades are now driven by software availability and not hardware going out of date quickly.
- Kon-Peki 2y ago> Why would I upgrade though Yeah, why would you? There have been how many Septembers since you got your current phone? Each one has had a new iPhone released. Next September there will be a new iPhone, and the September after that... Get a new phone when you want a new phone. You don't need a new one just because there is a new one.
- kotaKat 2y agoHow many people got screwed in the last 2 iPhone generations on carriers moving from a 24 month carrier financing model to 36 month carrier financing with "bill credit" promotions? I fathom a lot of people have a sour taste about wanting to trade in and get stuck with this phone for the next 3 years.
- Terretta 2y agoIf you don't "trade in" you can switch to Apple's CIT-backed financing that then Apple runs a single financing with an annual device refresh+trade-in tied to an annual financing refresh at the same monthly rate. (If you trade in, starting this is not among their offers. Perhaps the deal term or finance amount is too low to make the economics work, or more likely, would confuse consumers at the one year mark when the payments needed to go up.)
- tiahura 2y agoWhat are the folks on here with logs and telemetry seeing compared to 14 & 15?
- jedberg 2y agoSame thing happened with the Vision Pro. They were available for employee purchase almost right away.
- dagmx 2y agoThis article is bunk and misinformation . Employees almost always get a single personal discount on launch day. I’ve managed to score many a launch day product from friends there. What they don’t get on launch day is their lower tier discount for friends which (unless my friends are uncharacteristically holding out) they don’t have yet either.
- quitit 2y agoInterestingly Reddit saw through the click bait, but HN didn't. 1. The analysts quote is false: EPP purchases have been available for launch day for several years. (And he should know that, but analysts are part of the principal/agent problem.) 2. Analyst's sales figures are based on hot air. Apple don't publish them and, while this same claim is falsely made every year, the main data gathering metric for tracking sales in the past (the nebulous "emails receipts") has been knocked out. 3. The comments about China are not just false, but long out of date. iPhone demand in China has already rebounded from an industry-wide 2 month slump in February and March. 4. Finally: a cursory review of shipping times across a range of Apple's own websites shows the same level of demand as usual: as the largest iPhone markets the USA and China continue to have the lion's share of stock, while most others have already slipped into 2-3 week delivery windows for October: UK, DE, FR, AE, AU, NZ sampled.
- danw1979 2y agoAnecdata: I’m upgrading to a 16 this year and was ready for preorder at 1pm on the 13th, but due to a transient banking issue my credit card was repeatedly declined for about 20 mins. When I finally got an order in, the shipping date was a few weeks later. You can’t take any exact measurements from this but I’d say they’re selling plenty of them still.
- dagmx 2y agoMy two thoughts: 1. HN on average loves Apple doom and gloom stories. So I’m not surprised nobody questions the premise of the article. 2. Kuo (the analyst in question here) has had a very poor track record in the last couple years. His strength has always been supply chain and manufacturing numbers but I think he’s been struggling as Apple has diversified outside of China. Beyond that, his conjecture has always been full of head scratchers because he’s never been good at putting a story to the numbers.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoDoes qz have leaked internal business reports or something?
- jcpham2 2y agoStill like my iPhone X
- jcpham2 2y agoStill like my iPhone X. It’s a great phone
- user3939382 2y agoRemake the form factor of the 4S and we’ll talk. That’s the last phone that was comfortable to hold.
- Tempest1981 2y agoThe 13 Mini was also a nice size. Impossible to find nowadays. Apparently 95% of users want big phones.
- worthless-trash 2y agoI guess we're part of the 5% ?
- interstice 2y ago5% checking in
- sph 2y agoI get that some people spend their lives on their phones, but myself, with desktop, laptop and big hands, I don't want to carry half a tablet in my pocket to text people and play music. I adore my 12 Mini. I just wish it felt as thin as the 8
- Terretta 2y agoIt seems most who are not using tech professionally don't particularly want or habituate all the multiple devices, and as such, the phone becomes their "tablet" experience. No desktop, no laptop, if there's an ipad it's in a different room, the bigger screen of the phone means they only reach for the one thing.
- ectospheno 2y agoI also only text and play music. I get the largest phone available because I'm old and eyesight. Older people tend to have money.
- 2y ago
- anothername12 2y agoHave iPhone XS Max, am I missing anything?
- nicbou 2y agoIf you are happy, then no. My phone feels like a beater that's about to give up on me, and it's younger than yours. I envy long-lasting tech.
- Terretta 2y agoSerious question, serious answer: only camera low light and lens upgrades unless you're trying to run last year's AAA mobile games. Arguably no other differences are particularly noticeable -- other than the "always on" screen and mag-safe mounting + charging. Something you're probably not missing: SIM slots. The new models, in the US, are missing SIM slots.
- Ancalagon 2y agoShould’ve lowered rates sooner.
- binkethy 2y agoPerhaps Apple should take a hint that no one wants so-called AI features training on a device with intimate access to their lives. Whatever the final reality of feature availability, the conceptual damage had been done: Apple was bandwagon leaping and we had no choice. I will never buy another Apple device for other reasons, not least of which are the short support period and ever increasing enshittification of the operating system. I have not been a fan of anything developed since roughly steve jobs passing. Touch bar?! No thanks. The truth of the matter is that i see the light and insist upon a world where open source software, standards compliance, and end user choice MATTER, and matter more than corporate profits for an already too large and corrupt behemoth. Apple is a company, not your friend
- joshstrange 2y agoIf anything the low numbers could be due to AI feature not being available at launch, not the other way around. I’ve not seen any coverage on “people not buying the iPhone due to AI features”. > short support Uh what? Apple set the bar for phone support, only recently did other manufactures catch up (or get closer).
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- pjmlp 2y agoWe are way past beyond of critical mobile features, phones as platform are good enough, everything else are gimmicks to try to move beyond this. Time to look elsewhere for profit growth.
- zecg 2y ago> “One of the key factors for the lower-than-expected demand for the iPhone 16 Pro series is that the major selling point, Apple Intelligence, is not available at launch alongside the iPhone 16 release,” Kuo said. Well, I might be the minority here, but I don't want a phone that promises to integrate AI and would be very careful that it can be completely removed before I get it. What I'm seeing from people around me, there's quite a few that don't want any AI integration in their devices. I'm fine interacting with an LLM via browser or command line, a channel where it cannot know anything other than what I give it, but I'm not trusting a product that can be stealthily enshittified without me knowing it.
- wtcactus 2y agoMy plan is to only upgrade when a 13 mini alternative comes out - and only after it’s been out for 2 years so that I can buy it used for an acceptable price. I understand there’s not as much demand for smaller smartphones, but then again, I would go on a limb and say there’s more demand than the demand Apple get’s to upgrade a device every year. If they went on a 3 years alternating basis mini>standard>pro that would probably appeal to a very big lot of people.
- pdimitar 2y agoThe fact that a Pro costs the same as previous generations Pro Max, and Pro Max is 25% over that, might also have something to do with it. My wife still has iPhone X and as much as she's loving it, she wants some of the AI features for her hobbies and work. When we saw the price here in Eastern Europe we almost had a jaw drop moment. We're still buying it but... frak. Apple is very openly abusing its monopoly at this point and no, don't tell me there are good competitors. Even the Galaxy S24 Ultra doesn't have as good a software. Speaking of which, anybody can recommend a good gallery app that has Apple Photos' features?
- k4rli 2y agoOpinions vary obviously in this neverending "debate", but iOS is far from being good software unless you're neck deep in the ecosystem and don't know any better. Just because the UI is child-friendly doesn't make it useful. AOSP/LineageOS/GrapheneOS, especially with root, are excellent. Also Immich is a great gallery app.
- pdimitar 2y agoWe are "neck deep in the ecosystem" by the mere virtue of actually using the said features. If that means "we don't know any better" then we're not going to find a productive common ground for discussion. We took what was offered. Again, do let me know if you believe there are actual alternatives. One example: Apple Photos' OCR worked better than many paid softwares I used 5-10 years ago. And yeah I heard about Immich, thank you for the reminder. Guess I'll go scout what's out there and likely post a blog article here on HN at one point.
- BugsJustFindMe 2y agoIf they made a 16 mini I might buy one, but as it is my 13 mini still works fine and anything larger will be an inherent downgrade for me.
- rekoil 2y agoI would trade my left kidney for an iPhone 16 Pro mini.
- crossroadsguy 2y agoRight one's faulty? ;-) Why Pro etc for a Mini? I thought the point of Mini was not only to be a sanely sized phone but also a phone that is just a useful phone and not a phone with spec list that were more than overkill.
- rekoil 2y agoRight one is where I draw the line, take it or leave it. Jokes aside, I just don't think the size of the device should be what decides the features that go into it. Sure, battery would be on the chopping block unless you make the device thicker, but I would have no problem with a thicker device, especially if it's otherwise the size of the 12/13 mini. I'm confident it's possible to make a device the size of the 13 mini (slightly thicker to accommodate larger battery), with all the features of the 16 Pro, and I bet it would sell like hot cakes. I think many Pro purchasers buy Pro as a status symbol, but they don't actually want a large phone, that's my head canon for explaining why the 12/13 mini had poor sales figures, and I guess I know I'm probably wrong, but I want to be right, I'm tired of these huge phones that don't fit in my hand.
- crossroadsguy 2y agoI don't how most of the Apple users miss (or do they?) but iOS has been on constant decline for some time. Bloody hell they screwed the Photos app to pathetic. Why would they even do that? Was someone bored? They locked and coupled "call recording" feature with AI (and transcription as if older users would protested getting just the audio) and hence shrewdly limited to new devices. This was disgusting. The only feature I was really looking forward to. Why the hell did they add that "colour tint" change for icons? Bloody hell! And yet, even in iOS 18 you cannot change alert/ringtone settings for different SIM separately. I mean how retarded they at Apple have to be to not realise that two different numbers might actually demand that! Or maybe they will have to overhaul their entire codebase to do that. This seems plausible seeing their track record on Software. Oh yes, iCloud and iCloud syncing across "various things" still sucks and is still opaque and you just hope it works and you have no idea of knowing what was history, if there was any conflict, did something even sync, where the hell are my tabs from the other device hours and days later, why the hell some tabs remain glued in iCloud Tabs which I removed from a device a fortnight or month ago. Et cetera. Et cetera. Not to mention there is barely any advancement in the Phone and that too with raised price. No wonder people don't want a new iPhone. I thought Google would step up - make privacy better et cetera. But no, these companies are in completely harmony and perfect duopoly knowing fully well that they should not try to eat each other's lunches.
- twsted 2y agoFrom the article: "In the first weekend since its debut, Apple sold about 37 million iPhone 16 smartphones". Crazy that this is a "so weak demand"... and they are not yet available, just for pre-order.
- kylehotchkiss 2y agoThere was a line at the not big city Apple Store I visited yesterday. I was in it.