6 ms·

Plastics need be banned from clothing and food.

bluSCALE4 2y ago
From clothing? Do you have any idea how prevalent it's become? It is hard/impossible to find clothes without traces of plastic.
- glial 2y ago
  I can't tell whether you're making an argument for or against it.
  - Night_Thastus 2y ago
    I don't think they're stating either - just that it's pretty impractical to remove plastic from clothing at this point.
    - glial 2y ago
      As another commenter pointed out, you could (and people surely did) make the same argument about lead or asbestos. That alone doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.
      - lukan 2y ago
        We have clear evidence that asbestos and lead are very harmful. I don't think we have that evidence for plastic (yet). Also you totally can start buying plastic free clothes here and now. Just more expensive usually.
        atrus 2y ago
        Plus, plastics is a very very broad term. Saying "ban all plastics" isn't the same as saying ban lead, it's the same as saying "ban all metals".
        namibj 2y ago
        Yeah, i.e., is rayon banned? Silicones (they're very different from all the classic oil-sourced plastics).
        soperj 2y ago
        Sure we do, just look at the piles of clothing waste around the planet.
        lukan 2y ago
        It was about health hazards.
    - kwhitefoot 2y ago
      Why is it impractical? It would be unpopular and put prices up but it could be done. We would have to reduce the amount of clothing that is produced but that is hardly a problem as we produce vastly more than we need. We could eliminate fast fashion for a start.
      - bluSCALE4 2y ago
        You don't hear people saying, man, that asbestos and lead did a bang up job on X. But you 100% see 100% of women wearing stretchy pants. For the longest time I exclusively wore cotton jeans and then they became impossible to find and I finally realized what plastic was good for: fat people. Now I see men wearing them all the time. The struggle of the 80s on people killing themselves to fit into jeans is not longer a thing. Not sure how socks used to be without plastic but pretty sure they'd fall apart fast.
        antipurist 2y ago
        You don't need plastics for that. Warp knitting has been used for the last few centuries with cotton/linen/silk/wool to get stretchy textiles, and there are plenty of stretchy pants that are made of natural materials available today for those who struggle fitting into jeans.
        floren 2y ago
        > You don't hear people saying, man, that asbestos and lead did a bang up job on X. Well, asbestos is a great insulator and lead makes beautiful bright paints, it's just that the downsides outweighed those great properties.
        kwhitefoot 2y ago
        Cotton socks exist as well as wool worsted, so not a huge problem as far as I can see. Tights and stockings will be a much bigger challenge.
    - ninininino 2y ago
      It's extremely practical. We have cotton, linen, and wool as great amazing fabrics. Drawstrings replace elastic.
      - mrob 2y ago
        In my opinion, no natural fabric is as comfortable as synthetics. But I have cotton bedding and curtains. I think these are higher priority: bedding is used while you're lying close to it and easily able to inhale any dust, and curtains are exposed to sunlight that can weaken the fabric and make it break down more easily. They're also both large, meaning there's more plastic to be released. Carpet also seems a high priority, although that's more expensive and difficult to change.
        ninininino 2y ago
        It doesn't need to be comfortable, it needs to not lay waste to the planet and shrink your balls.
      - taeric 2y ago
        Nothing is replacing nylon where it is best used anytime soon.
        ninininino 2y ago
        We can replace Nylon with get this, poorer alternatives, if we gave a shit about the environment. I know it's unthinkable to switch to a worse product or user experience, but imagine caring more about the health of the planet.
        taeric 2y ago
        This feels naive. For things like parachutes or airbags, I question whether you would actually have benefits from using something like cotton. In particular, they almost certainly do not perform at the same level. As such, you run the real risk of losing gains from other material to losses to maintenance.
- cubefox 2y ago
  It seems plastic in fabrics can mostly be replaced with cotton.
  - Sharlin 2y ago
    Cotton production, however, is extremely resource-intensive (particularly water) to the point of unsustainability – and it's largely grown in parts of the world that are likely to suffer catastrophic droughts in the future.
    - cubefox 2y ago
      Cotton has been produced for a long time and with far more primitive means than today, so I'm pretty sure it is sustainable. Moreover, cotton being so cheap pretty much rules out it being "extremely resource intensive". Water is a very inexpensive resource in most parts of the world.
      - Sharlin 2y ago
        We're obviously no longer in those times. Many things that were once sustainable are no longer so. It is well understood that cotton production will face considerable difficulties in the future. At the same time the demand for cotton has exploded along with global population. Consumer prices of cotton do not accurately reflect the production cost due to the usual reasons (externalities, lack of global water pricing mechanisms). > Water is a very inexpensive resource in most parts of the world. I don't think you know what you're talking about, and you're (like myself) living in a privileged part of the world if water is an inexpensive resource to you. Freshwater scarcity is going to be one of the most critical issues exacerbated by the climate change, and as I said, particularly so in those parts of the world where cotton is grown such as South Asia. The most famous case of cotton production having catastrophic consequences is the Aral Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea). https://h2oglobalnews.com/cotton-farming-and-water-scarcity/ https://h2oglobalnews.com/cotton-farming-and-water-scarcity/ https://thewotrblog.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/why-farmers-are-growing-cotton-when-water-is-scarce/ https://thewotrblog.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/why-farmers-are... https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/mar/20/cost-cotton-water-challenged-india-world-water-day https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/mar/20... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800905005574 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09218...
- ninininino 2y ago
  It's not hard. Going to war is hard. Watching a loved one die is hard. Googling "100% cotton" _clothing item_, "100% linen", "100% leather", "100% wool". It's not hard.
- krick 2y ago
  Traces? I'm really puzzled by this thread, meaning I don't really understand what do people mean by plastics. I would guess it's all synthetic fabrics, but then the gp proposition is so nuts it's surprising someone even discusses it. Like, all sportswear is synthetic, and you cannot replace it with any old-fashioned fabrics, because synthetics are simply better. It isn't even the right word, it's like saying you must ban motorized vehicles from transportation. I mean, sure, there was a time when people were wearing wool, wood and leather and somehow even managed to do something like mountaineering in it, but it is absolutely unimaginable to me, how you can go for long grueling hikes in cotton clothes that just won't dry out on your body.
  - lukan 2y ago
    "were wearing wool, wood and leather and somehow even managed to do something like mountaineering" Serious mountaineering is still done with merino wool.
    - FrankoDelMar 2y ago
      Yes, but our outer layers and bags are all synthetic.
      - lukan 2y ago
        Yes, and it is useful, I did not claim we go to the mountains plastic free.
    - krick 2y ago
      You obviously have no clue about "serious mountaineering" and what you are talking about in general. Even though I do have a couple of merino wool items, they can be replaced with synthetics quite easily (the only real upside of wool is it is very warm and comfortable to sleep in), and no amount of wool will replace the other 95% of my clothing, which is mostly synthetic. Well, except for down, obviously, which is the only thing actually superior to the synthetic counterparts (and even that many people avoid, when travelling in rainy/wet regions). Everything else... It's not even a serious descission, it just isn't something anybody who ever did "serious mountaineering" would argue about, the vast majority of your gear is synthetic, and not because it's cheaper (it absolutely isn't cheap). It just the only viable option. Even something you could potentially replace with cotton (IDK, a backpack?) would weight a ton.
- ericd 2y ago
  Sure, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, buying something with a bit of spandex or whatever for stretch/durability is vastly better than buying something that's pure polyester fleece. Just go for as high a percentage cotton/wool/linen wherever you can.
- latentcall 2y ago
  It isn’t hard at all to find 100% cotton clothes though?
- naming_the_user 2y ago
  Before we removed lead from petrol it was hard/impossible to find fuel without petrol in. I dunno, half of my wardrobe is natural and the stuff that isn't is specific outdoor gear that would just be marginally worse at its' job (heavier, a bit less waterproof). I feel as if people get a bit stuck on things being optimal or whatever. If my boxer shorts and socks are a bit less elastic, ok, cool, whatever, who cares? If this stuff actually is dangerous it doesn't matter how much better it is.

From clothing? Do you have any idea how prevalent it's become? It is hard/impossible to find clothes without traces of plastic.

glial 2y ago
I can't tell whether you're making an argument for or against it.
- Night_Thastus 2y ago
  I don't think they're stating either - just that it's pretty impractical to remove plastic from clothing at this point.
  - glial 2y ago
    As another commenter pointed out, you could (and people surely did) make the same argument about lead or asbestos. That alone doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.
    - lukan 2y ago
      We have clear evidence that asbestos and lead are very harmful. I don't think we have that evidence for plastic (yet). Also you totally can start buying plastic free clothes here and now. Just more expensive usually.
      - atrus 2y ago
        Plus, plastics is a very very broad term. Saying "ban all plastics" isn't the same as saying ban lead, it's the same as saying "ban all metals".
        namibj 2y ago
        Yeah, i.e., is rayon banned? Silicones (they're very different from all the classic oil-sourced plastics).
      - soperj 2y ago
        Sure we do, just look at the piles of clothing waste around the planet.
        lukan 2y ago
        It was about health hazards.
  - kwhitefoot 2y ago
    Why is it impractical? It would be unpopular and put prices up but it could be done. We would have to reduce the amount of clothing that is produced but that is hardly a problem as we produce vastly more than we need. We could eliminate fast fashion for a start.
    - bluSCALE4 2y ago
      You don't hear people saying, man, that asbestos and lead did a bang up job on X. But you 100% see 100% of women wearing stretchy pants. For the longest time I exclusively wore cotton jeans and then they became impossible to find and I finally realized what plastic was good for: fat people. Now I see men wearing them all the time. The struggle of the 80s on people killing themselves to fit into jeans is not longer a thing. Not sure how socks used to be without plastic but pretty sure they'd fall apart fast.
      - antipurist 2y ago
        You don't need plastics for that. Warp knitting has been used for the last few centuries with cotton/linen/silk/wool to get stretchy textiles, and there are plenty of stretchy pants that are made of natural materials available today for those who struggle fitting into jeans.
      - floren 2y ago
        > You don't hear people saying, man, that asbestos and lead did a bang up job on X. Well, asbestos is a great insulator and lead makes beautiful bright paints, it's just that the downsides outweighed those great properties.
      - kwhitefoot 2y ago
        Cotton socks exist as well as wool worsted, so not a huge problem as far as I can see. Tights and stockings will be a much bigger challenge.
  - ninininino 2y ago
    It's extremely practical. We have cotton, linen, and wool as great amazing fabrics. Drawstrings replace elastic.
    - mrob 2y ago
      In my opinion, no natural fabric is as comfortable as synthetics. But I have cotton bedding and curtains. I think these are higher priority: bedding is used while you're lying close to it and easily able to inhale any dust, and curtains are exposed to sunlight that can weaken the fabric and make it break down more easily. They're also both large, meaning there's more plastic to be released. Carpet also seems a high priority, although that's more expensive and difficult to change.
      - ninininino 2y ago
        It doesn't need to be comfortable, it needs to not lay waste to the planet and shrink your balls.
    - taeric 2y ago
      Nothing is replacing nylon where it is best used anytime soon.
      - ninininino 2y ago
        We can replace Nylon with get this, poorer alternatives, if we gave a shit about the environment. I know it's unthinkable to switch to a worse product or user experience, but imagine caring more about the health of the planet.
        taeric 2y ago
        This feels naive. For things like parachutes or airbags, I question whether you would actually have benefits from using something like cotton. In particular, they almost certainly do not perform at the same level. As such, you run the real risk of losing gains from other material to losses to maintenance.
cubefox 2y ago
It seems plastic in fabrics can mostly be replaced with cotton.
- Sharlin 2y ago
  Cotton production, however, is extremely resource-intensive (particularly water) to the point of unsustainability – and it's largely grown in parts of the world that are likely to suffer catastrophic droughts in the future.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    Cotton has been produced for a long time and with far more primitive means than today, so I'm pretty sure it is sustainable. Moreover, cotton being so cheap pretty much rules out it being "extremely resource intensive". Water is a very inexpensive resource in most parts of the world.
    - Sharlin 2y ago
      We're obviously no longer in those times. Many things that were once sustainable are no longer so. It is well understood that cotton production will face considerable difficulties in the future. At the same time the demand for cotton has exploded along with global population. Consumer prices of cotton do not accurately reflect the production cost due to the usual reasons (externalities, lack of global water pricing mechanisms). > Water is a very inexpensive resource in most parts of the world. I don't think you know what you're talking about, and you're (like myself) living in a privileged part of the world if water is an inexpensive resource to you. Freshwater scarcity is going to be one of the most critical issues exacerbated by the climate change, and as I said, particularly so in those parts of the world where cotton is grown such as South Asia. The most famous case of cotton production having catastrophic consequences is the Aral Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea). https://h2oglobalnews.com/cotton-farming-and-water-scarcity/ https://h2oglobalnews.com/cotton-farming-and-water-scarcity/ https://thewotrblog.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/why-farmers-are-growing-cotton-when-water-is-scarce/ https://thewotrblog.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/why-farmers-are... https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/mar/20/cost-cotton-water-challenged-india-world-water-day https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/mar/20... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800905005574 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09218...
ninininino 2y ago
It's not hard. Going to war is hard. Watching a loved one die is hard. Googling "100% cotton" _clothing item_, "100% linen", "100% leather", "100% wool". It's not hard.
krick 2y ago
Traces? I'm really puzzled by this thread, meaning I don't really understand what do people mean by plastics. I would guess it's all synthetic fabrics, but then the gp proposition is so nuts it's surprising someone even discusses it. Like, all sportswear is synthetic, and you cannot replace it with any old-fashioned fabrics, because synthetics are simply better. It isn't even the right word, it's like saying you must ban motorized vehicles from transportation. I mean, sure, there was a time when people were wearing wool, wood and leather and somehow even managed to do something like mountaineering in it, but it is absolutely unimaginable to me, how you can go for long grueling hikes in cotton clothes that just won't dry out on your body.
- lukan 2y ago
  "were wearing wool, wood and leather and somehow even managed to do something like mountaineering" Serious mountaineering is still done with merino wool.
  - FrankoDelMar 2y ago
    Yes, but our outer layers and bags are all synthetic.
    - lukan 2y ago
      Yes, and it is useful, I did not claim we go to the mountains plastic free.
  - krick 2y ago
    You obviously have no clue about "serious mountaineering" and what you are talking about in general. Even though I do have a couple of merino wool items, they can be replaced with synthetics quite easily (the only real upside of wool is it is very warm and comfortable to sleep in), and no amount of wool will replace the other 95% of my clothing, which is mostly synthetic. Well, except for down, obviously, which is the only thing actually superior to the synthetic counterparts (and even that many people avoid, when travelling in rainy/wet regions). Everything else... It's not even a serious descission, it just isn't something anybody who ever did "serious mountaineering" would argue about, the vast majority of your gear is synthetic, and not because it's cheaper (it absolutely isn't cheap). It just the only viable option. Even something you could potentially replace with cotton (IDK, a backpack?) would weight a ton.
ericd 2y ago
Sure, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, buying something with a bit of spandex or whatever for stretch/durability is vastly better than buying something that's pure polyester fleece. Just go for as high a percentage cotton/wool/linen wherever you can.
latentcall 2y ago
It isn’t hard at all to find 100% cotton clothes though?
naming_the_user 2y ago
Before we removed lead from petrol it was hard/impossible to find fuel without petrol in. I dunno, half of my wardrobe is natural and the stuff that isn't is specific outdoor gear that would just be marginally worse at its' job (heavier, a bit less waterproof). I feel as if people get a bit stuck on things being optimal or whatever. If my boxer shorts and socks are a bit less elastic, ok, cool, whatever, who cares? If this stuff actually is dangerous it doesn't matter how much better it is.