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According to the LA Times these devices are “not usually used by fighters, but by ambulance and civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah

According to the LA Times these devices are “not usually used by fighters, but by ambulance and civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah. The devices are unrestricted and can be sold to anyone, and as such are used by other organizations in areas of poor signal.” [1] There is no question if an enemy set off hundreds of bombs in American ambulances we would recognize it as a mass terrorist attack. [1] https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2024-09-18/second-wave-of-device-explosions-rocks-lebanon https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2024-09-18/second...

pdabbadabba 2y ago
I agree that if it is confirmed that these are primarily used by civilian ambulance crews, that would make a big difference. Of course, this isn't what the LA Times actually reported, but I'm not sure what "civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah" actually means on the ground.
- jrflowers 2y ago
  > Of course, this isn't what the LA Times actually reported This is a good point. The LA Times does not report incidents involving ambulances other than in the first half of the sentence that you quoted: >They are not usually used by fighters, but by ambulance and civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah. And the report of a video of an ambulance exploding > Video from a funeral ceremony in the country’s south depicted an explosion inside an ambulance, leading bystanders to run away in panic.
  - stogot 2y ago
    So someone extrapolated one video to making an “usually” argument? Without a source or data this is poor journalism
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
RickJWagner 2y ago
LA Times notably does not report that Hezbollah has been recognized as a terrorist organization for many years by the US government. That fact alone makes their reporting suspect, IMHO.
Terr_ 2y ago
Hold up, that skips over the crucial issue of triggering-logic. It's reasonable to guess that these devices were made to only explode after a very unique code is is received, and/or only when traffic came over a radio channel known to be used by Hezbollah. In contrast, an uninvolved civilian medical doctor buying a booby-trapped pager secondhand shouldn't be at significant risk, since before carrying the pager around all day they'll first configure it to use their hospital's radio network, which should only be broadcasting innocuous hospital messages. > There is no question if an enemy set off hundreds of bombs in American ambulances we would recognize it as a mass terrorist attack. However if those bombs were only triggered by the code "Immediate Mobilization" broadcast over a CIA/DIA pager network, then the real question would become why so many ambulance staff were holding down a second secret job as spies and soldiers.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- aziaziazi 2y ago
  > uninvolved civilian medical doctor buying a booby-trapped pager secondhand shouldn't be at significant risk Pretty sure any doctor (or anyone else) owning one of those pager wouldn’t want to keep it, even if configured safely. Would you carry an hand grenade in your backpack all day long, as safe as it it because the pin is still in? > why so many ambulance staff were holding down a second secret job as spies and soldiers Hezbollah is a legal and popular party in Lebanon and is at war with another country, of course the medic staff is involved what’s else would you expect ? However "all parties must refrain from attacking and misusing medical facilities, transport, and personnel", what happens here is a crime for the Geneva convention. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_neutrality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_neutrality
  - oldandboring 2y ago
    > Hezbollah is a legal and popular party in Lebanon Hezbollah is an Iran-backed militia whose sole purpose is the destruction of Israel. > and is at war with another country No, they're not. They're a militia. Here is a timeline of major Hezbollah terrorist activities. Left out, of course, is the constant barrage of missiles rained down on northern Israel by Hezbollah. I copy-pasta'd this from another source for convenience: 1983: Hezbollah sends suicide truck bomb against US embassy and murders 63 people Also 1983: Hezbollah murders 241 American soldiers and 58 French soldiers with another suicide truck bomb 1984: Hezbollah murders 18 American soldiers with bombing in Spain Also 1984: Hezbollah murders 11 people with another truck bomb against US embassy 1992: Hezbollah murders 29 people with suicide bombing of Israeli Embassy in Argentina 1994: Hezbollah murders 85 Jewish Argentinian civilians in another suicide truck bomb 1996: Hezbollah murders 19 American Air Force personnel with bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia 2005: Hezbollah murders 22 civilians in assassination on Lebanese PM 2011 to present: Helped Assad murder up to half a million Syrian civilians, carrying out starvation sieges and ethnic cleansing against Sunni towns and cities

pdabbadabba 2y ago

I agree that if it is confirmed that these are primarily used by civilian ambulance crews, that would make a big difference. Of course, this isn't what the LA Times actually reported, but I'm not sure what "civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah" actually means on the ground.

jrflowers 2y ago
> Of course, this isn't what the LA Times actually reported This is a good point. The LA Times does not report incidents involving ambulances other than in the first half of the sentence that you quoted: >They are not usually used by fighters, but by ambulance and civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah. And the report of a video of an ambulance exploding > Video from a funeral ceremony in the country’s south depicted an explosion inside an ambulance, leading bystanders to run away in panic.
- stogot 2y ago
  So someone extrapolated one video to making an “usually” argument? Without a source or data this is poor journalism
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

RickJWagner 2y ago

LA Times notably does not report that Hezbollah has been recognized as a terrorist organization for many years by the US government. That fact alone makes their reporting suspect, IMHO.

Terr_ 2y ago

Hold up, that skips over the crucial issue of triggering-logic. It's reasonable to guess that these devices were made to only explode after a very unique code is is received, and/or only when traffic came over a radio channel known to be used by Hezbollah. In contrast, an uninvolved civilian medical doctor buying a booby-trapped pager secondhand shouldn't be at significant risk, since before carrying the pager around all day they'll first configure it to use their hospital's radio network, which should only be broadcasting innocuous hospital messages. > There is no question if an enemy set off hundreds of bombs in American ambulances we would recognize it as a mass terrorist attack. However if those bombs were only triggered by the code "Immediate Mobilization" broadcast over a CIA/DIA pager network, then the real question would become why so many ambulance staff were holding down a second secret job as spies and soldiers.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
aziaziazi 2y ago
> uninvolved civilian medical doctor buying a booby-trapped pager secondhand shouldn't be at significant risk Pretty sure any doctor (or anyone else) owning one of those pager wouldn’t want to keep it, even if configured safely. Would you carry an hand grenade in your backpack all day long, as safe as it it because the pin is still in? > why so many ambulance staff were holding down a second secret job as spies and soldiers Hezbollah is a legal and popular party in Lebanon and is at war with another country, of course the medic staff is involved what’s else would you expect ? However "all parties must refrain from attacking and misusing medical facilities, transport, and personnel", what happens here is a crime for the Geneva convention. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_neutrality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_neutrality
- oldandboring 2y ago
  > Hezbollah is a legal and popular party in Lebanon Hezbollah is an Iran-backed militia whose sole purpose is the destruction of Israel. > and is at war with another country No, they're not. They're a militia. Here is a timeline of major Hezbollah terrorist activities. Left out, of course, is the constant barrage of missiles rained down on northern Israel by Hezbollah. I copy-pasta'd this from another source for convenience: 1983: Hezbollah sends suicide truck bomb against US embassy and murders 63 people Also 1983: Hezbollah murders 241 American soldiers and 58 French soldiers with another suicide truck bomb 1984: Hezbollah murders 18 American soldiers with bombing in Spain Also 1984: Hezbollah murders 11 people with another truck bomb against US embassy 1992: Hezbollah murders 29 people with suicide bombing of Israeli Embassy in Argentina 1994: Hezbollah murders 85 Jewish Argentinian civilians in another suicide truck bomb 1996: Hezbollah murders 19 American Air Force personnel with bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia 2005: Hezbollah murders 22 civilians in assassination on Lebanese PM 2011 to present: Helped Assad murder up to half a million Syrian civilians, carrying out starvation sieges and ethnic cleansing against Sunni towns and cities