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> ESR should be ashamed. For saying that Turing should be remembered for his accomplishments rather than for the circumstances of his death?

zbuc 14y ago
Yes. Isn't it even more disheartening to know that such a thing could happen in an "enlightened" society to someone who had such great accomplishments? It was a complete lack of respect of basic human dignity, and people shouldn't forget that, especially presently when the issue(of gay rights) is finally entering the mass public eye. People should be aware of the results of oppression, it makes them more compassionate.
- fusiongyro 14y ago
  The problem is that the assertion that Turing killed himself because of oppression is not founded on facts. We'll never know why he killed himself--we may not even be sure he did kill himself. I believe gay rights are an important issue, and certainly evil things were done to Turing. No truths need to be bent to support this cause--and no cause benefits from illusory bolstering by half-truths and semi-lies. People should be aware of oppression, it does make them more compassionate, but usually when people find out they've been lied to, manipulated to support a cause, they react by rejecting the cause, sometimes violently. That's a lot worse for your cause than whatever benefit you might wring out of having Turing for a spokesman.
  - zbuc 14y ago
    > The problem is that the assertion that Turing killed himself because of oppression is not founded on facts. We'll never know why he killed himself--we may not even be sure he did kill himself. I believe gay rights are an important issue, and certainly evil things were done to Turing. No truths need to be bent to support this cause--and no cause benefits from illusory bolstering by half-truths and semi-lies. You admitted that terrible things were done to him -- which is enough. It doesn't really matter whether he killed himself over the oppression or not, the argument isn't predicated on that, but whether or not awful things were done to him, which they were, and which are undeniably documented. But, yeah, I agree that if it's not known whether or not he killed himself specifically over that it shouldn't be brought up -- but there is plenty of substance in what we do know happened to bring up.
portlander12345 14y ago
For the company he keeps. Comment on that blog enough and pretty soon a regular will threaten to come to your house and beat you up. This has happened to me twice and I've seen it happen to others; multiple perps, regulars and seemingly friends of ESR. Basically, the crowd he attracts is smart in some ways but uncivilized. It's a waste and a disappointment.
- Peaker 14y ago
  Isn't that police complaint worthy?
  - portlander12345 14y ago
    If I thought they meant it. But I actually think it's just an aggressive thrashing about on having their sacred beliefs threatened. The closed epistemic system of that crowd shows defense signs similar to those of Christianity.
    - meepmorp 14y ago
      It sounds like someone who hasn't matured since middle school. But maybe I'm just stuck in the statist mindset, where the government has a monopoly on the use of force. Perhaps they're merely advancing the anarcho-capitalist idea that private entities ought to be contracted to the various roles that have been usurped by the state. So, like private police, presumably there's a market for private jackbooted thugs to oppress dissenting ideas. There's no doubt some heavy ratiocinations I'm missing which make this morally acceptable, rather than the doing of violence to another that it seems on the surface. Long live the market!* *sorry
drzaiusapelord 14y ago
That Anne Frank was a great writer wasn't she? What ever happened to her?

zbuc 14y ago

Yes. Isn't it even more disheartening to know that such a thing could happen in an "enlightened" society to someone who had such great accomplishments? It was a complete lack of respect of basic human dignity, and people shouldn't forget that, especially presently when the issue(of gay rights) is finally entering the mass public eye. People should be aware of the results of oppression, it makes them more compassionate.

fusiongyro 14y ago
The problem is that the assertion that Turing killed himself because of oppression is not founded on facts. We'll never know why he killed himself--we may not even be sure he did kill himself. I believe gay rights are an important issue, and certainly evil things were done to Turing. No truths need to be bent to support this cause--and no cause benefits from illusory bolstering by half-truths and semi-lies. People should be aware of oppression, it does make them more compassionate, but usually when people find out they've been lied to, manipulated to support a cause, they react by rejecting the cause, sometimes violently. That's a lot worse for your cause than whatever benefit you might wring out of having Turing for a spokesman.
- zbuc 14y ago
  > The problem is that the assertion that Turing killed himself because of oppression is not founded on facts. We'll never know why he killed himself--we may not even be sure he did kill himself. I believe gay rights are an important issue, and certainly evil things were done to Turing. No truths need to be bent to support this cause--and no cause benefits from illusory bolstering by half-truths and semi-lies. You admitted that terrible things were done to him -- which is enough. It doesn't really matter whether he killed himself over the oppression or not, the argument isn't predicated on that, but whether or not awful things were done to him, which they were, and which are undeniably documented. But, yeah, I agree that if it's not known whether or not he killed himself specifically over that it shouldn't be brought up -- but there is plenty of substance in what we do know happened to bring up.

portlander12345 14y ago

For the company he keeps. Comment on that blog enough and pretty soon a regular will threaten to come to your house and beat you up. This has happened to me twice and I've seen it happen to others; multiple perps, regulars and seemingly friends of ESR. Basically, the crowd he attracts is smart in some ways but uncivilized. It's a waste and a disappointment.

Peaker 14y ago
Isn't that police complaint worthy?
- portlander12345 14y ago
  If I thought they meant it. But I actually think it's just an aggressive thrashing about on having their sacred beliefs threatened. The closed epistemic system of that crowd shows defense signs similar to those of Christianity.
  - meepmorp 14y ago
    It sounds like someone who hasn't matured since middle school. But maybe I'm just stuck in the statist mindset, where the government has a monopoly on the use of force. Perhaps they're merely advancing the anarcho-capitalist idea that private entities ought to be contracted to the various roles that have been usurped by the state. So, like private police, presumably there's a market for private jackbooted thugs to oppress dissenting ideas. There's no doubt some heavy ratiocinations I'm missing which make this morally acceptable, rather than the doing of violence to another that it seems on the surface. Long live the market!* *sorry

drzaiusapelord 14y ago

That Anne Frank was a great writer wasn't she? What ever happened to her?