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The pensioners would have gotten them anyway, from the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. The ruling is just about where that money comes from, the money wo

by ars 2y ago

The pensioners would have gotten them anyway, from the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. The ruling is just about where that money comes from, the money would be paid either way.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
This would’ve enriched shareholders at the detriment of taxpayers, while also causing pensioners to take a cut on their pensions.
- ars 2y ago
  The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is not paid for by taxpayers, it's paid for by insurance premiums from other companies. Also the "shareholders" are taxpayers, they are in general just ordinary people investing in businesses.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RS/95-118/45 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RS/95-118/45 > There is a statutory maximum benefit that PBGC can pay. Participants receive the lower of their benefit as calculated under the plan or the statutory maximum benefit. If a participant’s benefit is higher than the statutory maximum benefit, the participant’s benefit is reduced. Participants in single-employer plans that terminate in 2021 and are trusteed by PBGC may receive up to $72,409 per year if they begin taking their pension at the age of 65. The single-employer maximum benefit is adjusted depending on the age at which the participant begins taking the benefit and on the form of the benefit (e.g., the maximum benefit is lower for a joint-and-survivor annuity). The maximum benefit for participants in multiemployer plans that receive financial assistance depends on the number of years of service in the plan. For example, a participant with 30 years of service may receive up to $12,870 per year. Currently, most workers in singleemployer plans taken over by PBGC and multiemployer plans that receive financial assistance from PBGC receive the full pension benefit that they earned. > However, among participants in multiemployer plans that were terminated and likely to need financial assistance in the future, 49% have a benefit below the PBGC maximum guarantee and 51% have a benefit larger than the PBGC maximum guarantee (and therefore, would see a benefit reduction). At the end of FY2020, PBGC had a total deficit of $48.2 billion, which consisted of a $15.5 billion surplus from the single-employer program and a $63.7 billion deficit from the multiemployer program. PBGC’s single-employer program has been on the Government Accountability Office’s (GAO’s) list of high-risk government programs since 2003. PBGC’s multiemployer program was added in 2009. PBGC projects the financial position of the singleemployer program is likely to continue to improve, but the financial position of the multiemployer program is expected to worsen considerably over the next 10 years. The shortfall will eventually be made up from the general fund, funded by taxpayers. But, we are in the weeds unnecessarily. The PBGC should be a last resort, based on the above context.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    Although the number of Americans holding shares in companies and mutual funds has increased dramatically, "just ordinary people investing in businesses" is misleading in the extreme. > About 162 million Americans, or 62% of U.S. adults, own stock. The top 1% holds 50% of stocks, worth $21 trillion. The bottom 50% of U.S. adults hold only 1% of stocks, worth $437 billion. > Most Americans indirectly hold stocks through a mutual fund, an index fund, or a retirement account such as a 401(k). A smaller percentage directly holds stocks, meaning they purchase individual shares. - Motley Fool
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      > About 93% of U.S. households' stock market wealth is held by the top 10%. ; While it's true that a record high 58% of American households do own stocks via mutual funds or as individual shares, in the aggregate the amount of stock most of these folks own is tiny. https://www.axios.com/2024/01/10/wealthy-own-record-share-stock-market https://www.axios.com/2024/01/10/wealthy-own-record-share-st...

by ars 2y ago

The pensioners would have gotten them anyway, from the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. The ruling is just about where that money comes from, the money would be paid either way.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

This would’ve enriched shareholders at the detriment of taxpayers, while also causing pensioners to take a cut on their pensions.

ars 2y ago
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is not paid for by taxpayers, it's paid for by insurance premiums from other companies. Also the "shareholders" are taxpayers, they are in general just ordinary people investing in businesses.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RS/95-118/45 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RS/95-118/45 > There is a statutory maximum benefit that PBGC can pay. Participants receive the lower of their benefit as calculated under the plan or the statutory maximum benefit. If a participant’s benefit is higher than the statutory maximum benefit, the participant’s benefit is reduced. Participants in single-employer plans that terminate in 2021 and are trusteed by PBGC may receive up to $72,409 per year if they begin taking their pension at the age of 65. The single-employer maximum benefit is adjusted depending on the age at which the participant begins taking the benefit and on the form of the benefit (e.g., the maximum benefit is lower for a joint-and-survivor annuity). The maximum benefit for participants in multiemployer plans that receive financial assistance depends on the number of years of service in the plan. For example, a participant with 30 years of service may receive up to $12,870 per year. Currently, most workers in singleemployer plans taken over by PBGC and multiemployer plans that receive financial assistance from PBGC receive the full pension benefit that they earned. > However, among participants in multiemployer plans that were terminated and likely to need financial assistance in the future, 49% have a benefit below the PBGC maximum guarantee and 51% have a benefit larger than the PBGC maximum guarantee (and therefore, would see a benefit reduction). At the end of FY2020, PBGC had a total deficit of $48.2 billion, which consisted of a $15.5 billion surplus from the single-employer program and a $63.7 billion deficit from the multiemployer program. PBGC’s single-employer program has been on the Government Accountability Office’s (GAO’s) list of high-risk government programs since 2003. PBGC’s multiemployer program was added in 2009. PBGC projects the financial position of the singleemployer program is likely to continue to improve, but the financial position of the multiemployer program is expected to worsen considerably over the next 10 years. The shortfall will eventually be made up from the general fund, funded by taxpayers. But, we are in the weeds unnecessarily. The PBGC should be a last resort, based on the above context.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  Although the number of Americans holding shares in companies and mutual funds has increased dramatically, "just ordinary people investing in businesses" is misleading in the extreme. > About 162 million Americans, or 62% of U.S. adults, own stock. The top 1% holds 50% of stocks, worth $21 trillion. The bottom 50% of U.S. adults hold only 1% of stocks, worth $437 billion. > Most Americans indirectly hold stocks through a mutual fund, an index fund, or a retirement account such as a 401(k). A smaller percentage directly holds stocks, meaning they purchase individual shares. - Motley Fool
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    > About 93% of U.S. households' stock market wealth is held by the top 10%. ; While it's true that a record high 58% of American households do own stocks via mutual funds or as individual shares, in the aggregate the amount of stock most of these folks own is tiny. https://www.axios.com/2024/01/10/wealthy-own-record-share-stock-market https://www.axios.com/2024/01/10/wealthy-own-record-share-st...