4 ms·

What I don't understand is how this is in any way better from a policy perspective than a gas tax? A gas tax is already a proxy for distance driven, and - alth

by tjic 18y ago

What I don't understand is how this is in any way better from a policy perspective than a gas tax? A gas tax is already a proxy for distance driven, and - although I disagree with it - it builds in a policy that social progressives like: rewarding folks who emit less carbon per mile travelled, and punishing folks who emit more. What is the defect in the current system that this seeks to remedy?

ks 18y ago
I don't know about what they will do in Oregon, but this can actually be a more fair tax system. They can divide the state into tax zones. If you want to drive in a city with good public transportation, you should pay more than someone who is living outside the public transportation network. A gas tax hits everyone. Some people depend more on their car than others. If the goal is to reduce carbon emisions, the tax burden could be put on the drivers who have better alternatives.
LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
I wondered about this myself, but I do see potential long-term effects of a purely gas-tax based system. Even electric vehicles contribute wear and tear to the road system though they don't contribute emissions. The need for maintenance doesn't stop just because cars would be non-gasoline based. Eventually we will need to acknowledge this point from a purely pragmatic stance. Encouraging high-efficiency vehicles via a gas tax is a reasonable incentive now but it's not sustainable. I suspect that the eventual system will bear a resemblance to the one in use for long-haul trucking, where operators keep a detailed log of how many miles they drive in each state as well as loaded weight. GPS is one way to facilitate such a system.
- Goronmon 18y ago
  Agreed, while I definitely do not support a system that allows the government to track the citizens at all times, I do think people miss the fact that things like roads aren't free and need to be paid for somehow. As awesome as fuel-efficient cars are, if they are cutting down revenue from gas tax then the state does have to look for alternate tax sources.There is no way around it.
- DenisM 18y ago
  We can solve that problem when we get there. And solution could be simple - odometer tax, paid at the emission control.
dpatru 18y ago
The potential problem with the current tax on fuel to fund road maintenance in that a driver's fair share of road maintenance may not correspond to the amount of fuel she consumes. This can be unfair. For example, Bill Gates, who can afford to drive a $100,000 Tesla electric car, may drive a around a lot and wear out the road much more than a poor person who commutes in an old, cheap gas guzzler. Yet because road maintenance is allocated by the gas tax, Bill Gates, whose electric car consumes no gas, would pay nothing for road maintenance, while the poor person with the gas guzzler would pay too much.
tc 18y ago
Simple. This allows the state to charge BOTH gas taxes and GPS mileage taxes. No one is proposing the gas tax be eliminated, or promising that it won't be raised in the future. Asking for the 'defect' in the current system is like asking the question of why we need sales taxes, property taxes, inheritance taxes, gas taxes, tariffs, telecom taxes, corporate taxes, sin taxes, license fees, alternative minimum taxes, and capital gains taxes when we already have personal income taxes. The fact is that we never need another tax; we already have plenty enough. But the more places that you insert the taxman, the more total revenue you can extract without people noticing and raising a fuss (cf. VAT). "L'art de l'imposition consiste à plumer l'oie pour obtenir le plus possible de plumes avec le moins possible de cris." ("The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest amount of feathers with the least possible amount of hissing.") Jean-Baptiste Colbert
- GrandMasterBirt 18y ago
  This is perhaps where the truth is. As long as we can tax a little bit from many places people won't complain as if we tax a lot from one place. The problem with the GPS tax is that the Government knows where you are all the time. I don't feel that big brother will only do good with that information. The problem with gas tax: They want the revenue but as electric cars become a more and more realized potential, you can't tax solar power! However in the great state of... well anywhere mid-west... EVERYONE needs to use the road. Either it is by car or by bus. How the hell do you get around in that state? You can't walk to work if work is 15 miles away! So make a larger income tax that will tax everyone for roads. Because EVERYONE needs them, so it does not matter who pays, everyone will, and more fuel efficient cars = less gas tax. Then again the post I am replying to states correctly, tax too much people complain, tax too little people complain to lack of services. Taxation is an art form and apparently we don't have good artists at the moment.

by tjic 18y ago

ks 18y ago

I don't know about what they will do in Oregon, but this can actually be a more fair tax system. They can divide the state into tax zones. If you want to drive in a city with good public transportation, you should pay more than someone who is living outside the public transportation network. A gas tax hits everyone. Some people depend more on their car than others. If the goal is to reduce carbon emisions, the tax burden could be put on the drivers who have better alternatives.

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago

I wondered about this myself, but I do see potential long-term effects of a purely gas-tax based system. Even electric vehicles contribute wear and tear to the road system though they don't contribute emissions. The need for maintenance doesn't stop just because cars would be non-gasoline based. Eventually we will need to acknowledge this point from a purely pragmatic stance. Encouraging high-efficiency vehicles via a gas tax is a reasonable incentive now but it's not sustainable. I suspect that the eventual system will bear a resemblance to the one in use for long-haul trucking, where operators keep a detailed log of how many miles they drive in each state as well as loaded weight. GPS is one way to facilitate such a system.

Goronmon 18y ago
Agreed, while I definitely do not support a system that allows the government to track the citizens at all times, I do think people miss the fact that things like roads aren't free and need to be paid for somehow. As awesome as fuel-efficient cars are, if they are cutting down revenue from gas tax then the state does have to look for alternate tax sources.There is no way around it.
DenisM 18y ago
We can solve that problem when we get there. And solution could be simple - odometer tax, paid at the emission control.

dpatru 18y ago

The potential problem with the current tax on fuel to fund road maintenance in that a driver's fair share of road maintenance may not correspond to the amount of fuel she consumes. This can be unfair. For example, Bill Gates, who can afford to drive a $100,000 Tesla electric car, may drive a around a lot and wear out the road much more than a poor person who commutes in an old, cheap gas guzzler. Yet because road maintenance is allocated by the gas tax, Bill Gates, whose electric car consumes no gas, would pay nothing for road maintenance, while the poor person with the gas guzzler would pay too much.

tc 18y ago

Simple. This allows the state to charge BOTH gas taxes and GPS mileage taxes. No one is proposing the gas tax be eliminated, or promising that it won't be raised in the future. Asking for the 'defect' in the current system is like asking the question of why we need sales taxes, property taxes, inheritance taxes, gas taxes, tariffs, telecom taxes, corporate taxes, sin taxes, license fees, alternative minimum taxes, and capital gains taxes when we already have personal income taxes. The fact is that we never need another tax; we already have plenty enough. But the more places that you insert the taxman, the more total revenue you can extract without people noticing and raising a fuss (cf. VAT). "L'art de l'imposition consiste à plumer l'oie pour obtenir le plus possible de plumes avec le moins possible de cris." ("The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest amount of feathers with the least possible amount of hissing.") Jean-Baptiste Colbert

GrandMasterBirt 18y ago
This is perhaps where the truth is. As long as we can tax a little bit from many places people won't complain as if we tax a lot from one place. The problem with the GPS tax is that the Government knows where you are all the time. I don't feel that big brother will only do good with that information. The problem with gas tax: They want the revenue but as electric cars become a more and more realized potential, you can't tax solar power! However in the great state of... well anywhere mid-west... EVERYONE needs to use the road. Either it is by car or by bus. How the hell do you get around in that state? You can't walk to work if work is 15 miles away! So make a larger income tax that will tax everyone for roads. Because EVERYONE needs them, so it does not matter who pays, everyone will, and more fuel efficient cars = less gas tax. Then again the post I am replying to states correctly, tax too much people complain, tax too little people complain to lack of services. Taxation is an art form and apparently we don't have good artists at the moment.