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The entire US is going to freak out if a platoon of KGB soldiers flew into US and killed hundreds of bad guys. How objectively bad the "victims" might have been

The entire US is going to freak out if a platoon of KGB soldiers flew into US and killed hundreds of bad guys. How objectively bad the "victims" might have been isn't going to matter. You can't just walk across a recognized international border and do the "right" thing without a consent, regardless of how right or wrong it had been. That's an act of war, technically.

stetrain 2y ago
As far as I know in this case both sides have already attacked each other via bombs, airstrikes, rockets, etc. I'm not really making a judgement on whether this was ethical or justified. There's just a distinction to be made from intentionally killing civilians for the purpose of causing terror versus targeting a group that you are in an open military hostility with. The second one, as you say, is basically just war. And war has historically also included civilian casualties. Flying a plane full of civilians into a building full of civilians, or detonating a bomb in a public square full of civilians, are pretty clear examples of what "terrorism" is. They aren't actions meant to directly attack the capability of an enemy to wage war against you. What governments and media choose to label "terrorism" or "terrorist groups" however is inherently political and not done following some agreed, objective definition.
- gryzzly 2y ago
  the operation targets operatives of a terrorist organization, not civilians. they use it as secure communication over mobile phones to not be easily locatable. is that lost on you, that it’s targeting the communication used by combatants?
  - stetrain 2y ago
    I haven’t said anything that disagrees with that. Might want to re-read my comment above in this thread.
- yieldcrv 2y ago
  Right, that is the (weak) counterpoint from that region They’ve been at war for 50 years, like, officially the war declaration was never dropped. So recent missile volleys can’t be treated in isolation, despite that making sense
lukan 2y ago
You are aware that Hezbollah routinely fires missiles into Israel (and Israel fires Artillery and drop bombs)? How would you call that? There is already a war, so far it just has been avoided to become an all out war.
- numpad0 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - lukan 2y ago
    If you look at the birth rates, it rather looks Israel will disappear at some point. There is a arab population inside of Israel that is growing fast and some already freak out over it. Also no, they largely don't accept it. The fanatics on both sides dream of the day of final victory over the enemy. And then there will be everlasting peace and paradise or something like it.
  - LincolnedList 2y ago
    This is a little ridiculous. Lets say all the Lebanese "grow up" and say they had it enough with these black ops by their enemies. And so each able man takes a gun in hand and goes to war against Israel. And lets say they lose the war badly. What now?
  - gryzzly 2y ago
    they should grow up and get rid of Iran‘s proxy waging war against civilian population from their territory and obviously also terrorizing the local population – they also built tunnels and invested hundreds of millions into terrorism infrastructure instead of investing into poor economy of Lebanon and make real jobs etc. etc.
    - numpad0 2y ago
      Exactly.
orbital-decay 2y ago
>You can't just walk across a recognized international border and do the "right" thing without a consent, regardless of how right or wrong it had been. That's an act of war, technically. You might want to read up on the killing of bin Laden, Entebbe raid, and many other similar operations.
- lazide 2y ago
  Notably, special forces are almost universally exempt from ‘fair’ POW treatment, and treated similarly to spies. Aka often shot on sight, can be tortured, etc. It’s part of the deal when you’re a high speed, low drag type. Be good, or get dead.
raxxorraxor 2y ago
Hezbollah does specifically exist to attack Israel. Of course that does matter, even if I ignore them firing rockets constantly. They could decide to build up their country and Israel wouldn't interfere.
namaria 2y ago
National freak out levels quantification problems notwithstanding, If a platoon of American CIA agents went around the US executing 'bad people' (definition problems notwithstanding), That would be bad.

stetrain 2y ago

As far as I know in this case both sides have already attacked each other via bombs, airstrikes, rockets, etc. I'm not really making a judgement on whether this was ethical or justified. There's just a distinction to be made from intentionally killing civilians for the purpose of causing terror versus targeting a group that you are in an open military hostility with. The second one, as you say, is basically just war. And war has historically also included civilian casualties. Flying a plane full of civilians into a building full of civilians, or detonating a bomb in a public square full of civilians, are pretty clear examples of what "terrorism" is. They aren't actions meant to directly attack the capability of an enemy to wage war against you. What governments and media choose to label "terrorism" or "terrorist groups" however is inherently political and not done following some agreed, objective definition.

gryzzly 2y ago
the operation targets operatives of a terrorist organization, not civilians. they use it as secure communication over mobile phones to not be easily locatable. is that lost on you, that it’s targeting the communication used by combatants?
- stetrain 2y ago
  I haven’t said anything that disagrees with that. Might want to re-read my comment above in this thread.
yieldcrv 2y ago
Right, that is the (weak) counterpoint from that region They’ve been at war for 50 years, like, officially the war declaration was never dropped. So recent missile volleys can’t be treated in isolation, despite that making sense

lukan 2y ago

You are aware that Hezbollah routinely fires missiles into Israel (and Israel fires Artillery and drop bombs)? How would you call that? There is already a war, so far it just has been avoided to become an all out war.

numpad0 2y ago
[flagged]
- lukan 2y ago
  If you look at the birth rates, it rather looks Israel will disappear at some point. There is a arab population inside of Israel that is growing fast and some already freak out over it. Also no, they largely don't accept it. The fanatics on both sides dream of the day of final victory over the enemy. And then there will be everlasting peace and paradise or something like it.
- LincolnedList 2y ago
  This is a little ridiculous. Lets say all the Lebanese "grow up" and say they had it enough with these black ops by their enemies. And so each able man takes a gun in hand and goes to war against Israel. And lets say they lose the war badly. What now?
- gryzzly 2y ago
  they should grow up and get rid of Iran‘s proxy waging war against civilian population from their territory and obviously also terrorizing the local population – they also built tunnels and invested hundreds of millions into terrorism infrastructure instead of investing into poor economy of Lebanon and make real jobs etc. etc.
  - numpad0 2y ago
    Exactly.

orbital-decay 2y ago

>You can't just walk across a recognized international border and do the "right" thing without a consent, regardless of how right or wrong it had been. That's an act of war, technically. You might want to read up on the killing of bin Laden, Entebbe raid, and many other similar operations.

lazide 2y ago
Notably, special forces are almost universally exempt from ‘fair’ POW treatment, and treated similarly to spies. Aka often shot on sight, can be tortured, etc. It’s part of the deal when you’re a high speed, low drag type. Be good, or get dead.

raxxorraxor 2y ago

Hezbollah does specifically exist to attack Israel. Of course that does matter, even if I ignore them firing rockets constantly. They could decide to build up their country and Israel wouldn't interfere.

namaria 2y ago

National freak out levels quantification problems notwithstanding, If a platoon of American CIA agents went around the US executing 'bad people' (definition problems notwithstanding), That would be bad.