4 ms·

I don't know about that. When Al Quaeda attacked the USS Cole, a purely military vessel without a single civilian casualty, the US administration and the entire

by rtsil 2y ago

I don't know about that. When Al Quaeda attacked the USS Cole, a purely military vessel without a single civilian casualty, the US administration and the entire US military called it an act of terrorrism.

stetrain 2y ago
Sure. "The definition of terrorism is controversial and political." How governments, media, etc. use that word is often politically loaded and not based on some agreed objective definition.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
PepperdineG 2y ago
Al Qaeda isn't a nation-state so by definition it falls into terrorism. It's like if Greenpeace sunk a military vessel because the sonar was killing sea life that would be terrorism. It would have some serious side effects if it was OK for private non-governmental actors being able to target militaries and be seen as legitimate in their actions.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  But by definition the founders of the USA were terrorists. And they knew it too, viz. Benjamin Franklin's famous line 'Gentlemen, we must all hang together or we shall most assuredly hang separately.' Preemptively invalidating all non-state actors is just a way for people with power to avoid challenges to it. Every single oppressive regime describes rebels as terrorists and employs circular arguments to assert its own legitimacy. Using this to dismiss military attacks on military targets is, frankly, bullshit.
  - bamboozled 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - klingoff 2y ago
      Why do you assume they had your sense of ethics? 10 was often considered the age of adulthood. Little men had no specific exception from work or war, or expectation of education outside specific classes. Being a regular troop was more often from 16, but plenty fought from 10 up or had other roles in battle.
      - bamboozled 2y ago
        1) You need to start somewhere, 2) people don't realize how good we have it today and it's because of people like the founding fathers we can enjoy this reality, going back as far as plato and socrates. There is a reason why you choose to live in a democratic society, because it's the absolute best system we've ever had, and probably will for some time.
        tharkun__ 2y ago
        Not to detract from any of what you said but the "founders of democracy" i.e. the ancient Greeks had some (nowadays) pretty controversial ideas vis a vis what was considered OK and normal about things like child exploitation, slavery, sexual exploitation etc.
    - za3faran 2y ago
      Who says "kill the infidels"?
      - bamboozled 2y ago
        https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1726739588457156922.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1726739588457156922.html I think you're either trolling, really out of touch with reality, but here is an excerpt from the above: 2. We hate you because your secular, liberal societies permit the very things that Allah has prohibited while banning many of the things He has permitted, a matter that doesn’t concern you because you separate between religion and state, thereby granting supreme authority to your whims and desires via the legislators you vote into power. In doing so, you desire to rob Allah of His right to be obeyed and you wish to usurp that right for yourselves. “Legislation is not but for Allah” (Yusuf 40). Your secular liberalism has led you to tolerate and even support “gay rights,” to allow alcohol, drugs, fornication, gambling, and usury to become widespread, and to encourage the people to mock those who denounce these filthy sins and vices. As such, we wage war against you to stop you from spreading your disbelief and debauchery – your secularism and nationalism, your perverted liberal values, your Christianity and atheism – and all the depravity and corruption they entail. You’ve made it your mission to “liberate” Muslim societies; we’ve made it our mission to fight off your influence and protect mankind from your misguided concepts and your deviant way of life. Is that enough for you? The part about "waging war against non believers caught my eye", how about you?
- jhanschoo 2y ago
  Of course, if we consider all actions by non-state combatants against state military actors to be terrorism, the US and Western Europe has frequently been a big sponsor of terrorism. A recent cause that many are sympathetic to of this nature that immediately comes to my mind are the Kurds in Syria during the Syrian civil war.
- aziaziazi 2y ago
  > Greenpeace sunk a military vessel Funny exemple knowing France sunk a Greenpeace vessel. That act has been called "state terrorism". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warri...
bamboozled 2y ago
[flagged]

by rtsil 2y ago

stetrain 2y ago

Sure. "The definition of terrorism is controversial and political." How governments, media, etc. use that word is often politically loaded and not based on some agreed objective definition.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

PepperdineG 2y ago

Al Qaeda isn't a nation-state so by definition it falls into terrorism. It's like if Greenpeace sunk a military vessel because the sonar was killing sea life that would be terrorism. It would have some serious side effects if it was OK for private non-governmental actors being able to target militaries and be seen as legitimate in their actions.

anigbrowl 2y ago
But by definition the founders of the USA were terrorists. And they knew it too, viz. Benjamin Franklin's famous line 'Gentlemen, we must all hang together or we shall most assuredly hang separately.' Preemptively invalidating all non-state actors is just a way for people with power to avoid challenges to it. Every single oppressive regime describes rebels as terrorists and employs circular arguments to assert its own legitimacy. Using this to dismiss military attacks on military targets is, frankly, bullshit.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - klingoff 2y ago
    Why do you assume they had your sense of ethics? 10 was often considered the age of adulthood. Little men had no specific exception from work or war, or expectation of education outside specific classes. Being a regular troop was more often from 16, but plenty fought from 10 up or had other roles in battle.
    - bamboozled 2y ago
      1) You need to start somewhere, 2) people don't realize how good we have it today and it's because of people like the founding fathers we can enjoy this reality, going back as far as plato and socrates. There is a reason why you choose to live in a democratic society, because it's the absolute best system we've ever had, and probably will for some time.
      - tharkun__ 2y ago
        Not to detract from any of what you said but the "founders of democracy" i.e. the ancient Greeks had some (nowadays) pretty controversial ideas vis a vis what was considered OK and normal about things like child exploitation, slavery, sexual exploitation etc.
  - za3faran 2y ago
    Who says "kill the infidels"?
    - bamboozled 2y ago
      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1726739588457156922.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1726739588457156922.html I think you're either trolling, really out of touch with reality, but here is an excerpt from the above: 2. We hate you because your secular, liberal societies permit the very things that Allah has prohibited while banning many of the things He has permitted, a matter that doesn’t concern you because you separate between religion and state, thereby granting supreme authority to your whims and desires via the legislators you vote into power. In doing so, you desire to rob Allah of His right to be obeyed and you wish to usurp that right for yourselves. “Legislation is not but for Allah” (Yusuf 40). Your secular liberalism has led you to tolerate and even support “gay rights,” to allow alcohol, drugs, fornication, gambling, and usury to become widespread, and to encourage the people to mock those who denounce these filthy sins and vices. As such, we wage war against you to stop you from spreading your disbelief and debauchery – your secularism and nationalism, your perverted liberal values, your Christianity and atheism – and all the depravity and corruption they entail. You’ve made it your mission to “liberate” Muslim societies; we’ve made it our mission to fight off your influence and protect mankind from your misguided concepts and your deviant way of life. Is that enough for you? The part about "waging war against non believers caught my eye", how about you?
jhanschoo 2y ago
Of course, if we consider all actions by non-state combatants against state military actors to be terrorism, the US and Western Europe has frequently been a big sponsor of terrorism. A recent cause that many are sympathetic to of this nature that immediately comes to my mind are the Kurds in Syria during the Syrian civil war.
aziaziazi 2y ago
> Greenpeace sunk a military vessel Funny exemple knowing France sunk a Greenpeace vessel. That act has been called "state terrorism". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warri...

bamboozled 2y ago

[flagged]