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I see a lot of comments here that seem to imply there is knowledge that victims were exclusively members of Hezbollah.

TacticalCoder 2y ago
> I see a lot of comments here that seem to imply there is knowledge that victims were exclusively members of Hezbollah. Well a great many here also believe that raping and killing 1200 young civilians who were enjoying a music at a festival is an act of "resistance". I don't know about you but to me these civilians weren't Mossad agents. War is messy: if you don't want to find out, don't fuck around. For example begin by not firing missile on another country. And I see a lot of people who are fucking around at the moment, including in the EU and the US, thinking there shall never be any reaction. They can keep fucking around: at some point they'll find out.
tptacek 2y ago
Yes, consider all the Hezbollah school teachers carrying Hezbollah ICOM walkie-talkies.
- dtornabene 2y ago
  You realize these went off in supermarkets, right? In hospitals? In homes where children were near by? There has already been reporting on at least two dead children.
  - dralley 2y ago
    What alternative do you suggest? It's not as though a 250, 500lb bomb is less prone to collateral damage. Hezbollah willingly joined with Hamas into a war. As far as war goes, this is just about the most precise form of targeting possible, especially in an urban area.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
invalidname 2y ago
These were devices purchased by Hezbollah for their internal communications. There are cell phones in Lebanon and they are cheap, people use these devices to avoid Israeli tracking. Otherwise you would use a cell phone. Explosions were very localized so in terms of civilian casualties this was probably very low.
- bbatha 2y ago
  That's true but doesn't really respond there are three levels to consider regarding this and whether Israel truly did minimize civilian casualties. 1. Were the pagers/radios distributed to only Hezbollah members or was Hezbollah the main purchaser of the lots? Plenty of professions (doctors) still use pagers. 2. Did Hezbollah distribute these only to militants or did members of its civil service receive these as well? Keep in mind that Hezbollah is a legitimate political party in Lebanon and provides social services and operates hospitals. They have plenty of members and leaders who have never personally lifted a finger to harm Israel. 3. Did Israel verify that these devices were in the hands of Hezbollah members at the time of detonation and that those members were isolated to minimize collateral damage? The answer to this is clearly no, the logistics are simply impossible to track who is holding 3000+ passive devices. And we've seen reports of civilian causalities including a dead child.
  - invalidname 2y ago
    Hezbollah is not a mobile device distribution organization. From my understanding they bought these to avoid Israeli tracking for their own people. No civilian doctor would use these pagers but there are medics working for Hezbollah like any militia/army. Due to the nature of the devices I doubt it's physically possible to verify every explosion. Just like you can't verify it with a bomb or even a bullet. It's tragic that civilians are hurt but that would happen in any case when there's a war. Hezbollah themselves bootstrapped a phone in the past. They also recently fired on a football field and killed 12 children. Then they hide in tunnels while leaving the general populace of Lebanon to deal with the wrath of the war that they started while they keep shelling the northern part of Israel. These parts of Israel and Lebanon are abandoned now because of their war. For once, they actually got some consequences for their own actions. Was it 100% perfect and surgical? Hell no. Nothing ever is, that's fantasy land. But it's about the closest thing that you can get to an ideal attack in these specific circumstances. The fact that the attack produced less than 1% in casualties shows the concern for collateral damage in this situation.
zardo 2y ago
I mean obviously not, even if the radios were exclusively in possession of Hezbollah fighters or apparatchiks, they don't live in isolation. They go to coffee shops and restaurants and have dinner with their families.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ineedasername 2y ago
I have not seen that implication anywhere and most reporting cites 1 or 2 killed children. On the other hand, 5000 (per reports) of these pagers were purchased by Hezbollah because they were afraid cell phones could be implanted with bombs (there's precedent) and so the users would be predominantly Hezbollah members. Despite this, there are a few persistent comments here that thousands of civilians were injured. That statement seems near to willfully wrong or intended to be misleading given the circumstances and lack of any more specific information about the people injured.

> I see a lot of comments here that seem to imply there is knowledge that victims were exclusively members of Hezbollah. Well a great many here also believe that raping and killing 1200 young civilians who were enjoying a music at a festival is an act of "resistance". I don't know about you but to me these civilians weren't Mossad agents. War is messy: if you don't want to find out, don't fuck around. For example begin by not firing missile on another country. And I see a lot of people who are fucking around at the moment, including in the EU and the US, thinking there shall never be any reaction. They can keep fucking around: at some point they'll find out.

tptacek 2y ago

Yes, consider all the Hezbollah school teachers carrying Hezbollah ICOM walkie-talkies.

dtornabene 2y ago
You realize these went off in supermarkets, right? In hospitals? In homes where children were near by? There has already been reporting on at least two dead children.
- dralley 2y ago
  What alternative do you suggest? It's not as though a 250, 500lb bomb is less prone to collateral damage. Hezbollah willingly joined with Hamas into a war. As far as war goes, this is just about the most precise form of targeting possible, especially in an urban area.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

invalidname 2y ago

These were devices purchased by Hezbollah for their internal communications. There are cell phones in Lebanon and they are cheap, people use these devices to avoid Israeli tracking. Otherwise you would use a cell phone. Explosions were very localized so in terms of civilian casualties this was probably very low.

bbatha 2y ago
That's true but doesn't really respond there are three levels to consider regarding this and whether Israel truly did minimize civilian casualties. 1. Were the pagers/radios distributed to only Hezbollah members or was Hezbollah the main purchaser of the lots? Plenty of professions (doctors) still use pagers. 2. Did Hezbollah distribute these only to militants or did members of its civil service receive these as well? Keep in mind that Hezbollah is a legitimate political party in Lebanon and provides social services and operates hospitals. They have plenty of members and leaders who have never personally lifted a finger to harm Israel. 3. Did Israel verify that these devices were in the hands of Hezbollah members at the time of detonation and that those members were isolated to minimize collateral damage? The answer to this is clearly no, the logistics are simply impossible to track who is holding 3000+ passive devices. And we've seen reports of civilian causalities including a dead child.
- invalidname 2y ago
  Hezbollah is not a mobile device distribution organization. From my understanding they bought these to avoid Israeli tracking for their own people. No civilian doctor would use these pagers but there are medics working for Hezbollah like any militia/army. Due to the nature of the devices I doubt it's physically possible to verify every explosion. Just like you can't verify it with a bomb or even a bullet. It's tragic that civilians are hurt but that would happen in any case when there's a war. Hezbollah themselves bootstrapped a phone in the past. They also recently fired on a football field and killed 12 children. Then they hide in tunnels while leaving the general populace of Lebanon to deal with the wrath of the war that they started while they keep shelling the northern part of Israel. These parts of Israel and Lebanon are abandoned now because of their war. For once, they actually got some consequences for their own actions. Was it 100% perfect and surgical? Hell no. Nothing ever is, that's fantasy land. But it's about the closest thing that you can get to an ideal attack in these specific circumstances. The fact that the attack produced less than 1% in casualties shows the concern for collateral damage in this situation.

zardo 2y ago

I mean obviously not, even if the radios were exclusively in possession of Hezbollah fighters or apparatchiks, they don't live in isolation. They go to coffee shops and restaurants and have dinner with their families.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ineedasername 2y ago

I have not seen that implication anywhere and most reporting cites 1 or 2 killed children. On the other hand, 5000 (per reports) of these pagers were purchased by Hezbollah because they were afraid cell phones could be implanted with bombs (there's precedent) and so the users would be predominantly Hezbollah members. Despite this, there are a few persistent comments here that thousands of civilians were injured. That statement seems near to willfully wrong or intended to be misleading given the circumstances and lack of any more specific information about the people injured.