8 ms·
If it walks like terrorism, and quacks like terrorism... I struggle to understand how they're imagining they're obviating the optics of this, unless they don't
by datameta 2y ago
If it walks like terrorism, and quacks like terrorism...
I struggle to understand how they're imagining they're obviating the optics of this, unless they don't care what the dissenting population in Israel thinks (or the world for that matter) until "it is done".
- golergka 2y agoCan you explain how ultra targeted, small explosive charges quack terrorism? I have been reading comments like this yesterday, and I'm completely bewildered as to how any sane person could come to this conclusion. Did you consider the US operation to take down Bin Laden an act of terrorism too?
- morwanger 2y ago[flagged]
- golergka 2y agoThis is war. Any hostile action in armed conflict can, and will, have collateral damage to the innocent. Acts of terror and war crimes are determined by who is targeted, what precautions are taken to minimise collateral damage, and how significant is the military target compared to expected collateral damage. If you don't want to kill any innocent civilians, your only course of action is not to offer any resistance to people who attack you and surrender.
- datameta 2y agoThat last paragraph is disingenuous at best because there is a miles-wide valley of options between setting off explosives in peoples' pockets and surrender.
- golergka 2y agoNo, this paragraph explains that "this attack killed innocent" is not a good argument if you want to prove that this was a war crime or an act of terror. If you want to prove something like this, your argument should be "this attack targeted innocents", "reasonable precautions to minimise damage to innocents were not taken", or "the military significance of target is insignificant compared to damage to innocents". I don't see any of these arguments.
- klez 2y ago> "reasonable precautions to minimise damage to innocents were not taken" I'd say this particular line has been crossed the moment you make something explode without knowing who exactly is holding it and where they are.
- rasz 2y agoIts almost like the target group is known for using civilians as shields. Dont bring kids to your work seems like a no brainer, especially when you are a terrorist.
- deepsun 2y agoBut that is the tactic, and it has been for the whole time. Just like Hamas puts its centers in and under hospitals, so civilians act like a shield. And very convenient for propaganda if hospitals gets under attack.
- anigbrowl 2y agoAbsurd argument. Do you think off-duty military personnel never go to grocery stores or the like in other countries?
- darknavi 2y ago> ultra targeted How positive are we that by standards didn't get the same batch of devices?
- datameta 2y agoCan you imagine being in a supermarket and detonations go off dropping people? At least 8 children have died in the pager attack. The US did not detonate personal devices using a supply-chain infiltration, I am specifically talking about this tactic. If you feel the need to bring another conflict into this, you don't think you have an argument to stand on. Imagine this was Hezbollah detonating hundreds or thousands of devices in Israel?
- golergka 2y ago> Imagine this was Hezbollah detonating hundreds or thousands of devices in Israel? If these were devices used predominantly by IDF, I wouldn't consider it an act of terror either. However, Hezbolla prefers to indiscriminately target civilians. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/druze-shock-war-between-israel-hezbollah-strikes-home-2024-07-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/druze-shock-war-be...
- datameta 2y agoSince we're bringing other conflicts into this... How come Ukraine is able to put in every effort to avoid civilian death when their opponent deliberately uses cruise and ballistic missiles on residential areas?
- scottiebarnes 2y agoTo be ultra targeted you actually have to know where your target is when your bomb goes off. When you detonate thousands at once, you're simply accepting the civilian casualty risk.
- limit499karma 2y ago"They are hiding behind civilians" (tm)
- golergka 2y agoThis risk is so low it is ultra targeted. Once again, the usual ratio of civilian casualties to combatant casualties in a modern war, per UN, is 9:1. In Gaza war, this ratio is 1-2:1, so even there, Israel is already producing 5-10 times less civilian casualties. In this case, it's thousands of enemy combatants and (at the most, according to journalists in Lebanon and therefore under Hezbolla power) a couple of dozens of civilians. Can you calculate the ratio here? Where else have you seen a military operation of this scope and with this kind of civilian-to-combatant casualty ratio?
- ragazzina 2y ago>Once again, the usual ratio of civilian casualties to combatant casualties in a modern war, per UN, is 9:1. >it has often been claimed that 90 percent of the victims of modern wars are civilians,[1][2][3][4] repeated in academic publications as recently as 2014.[5] These claims, though widely believed and correct regarding some wars, do not hold up as a generalization across the overwhelming majority of wars >In Gaza war, this ratio is 1-2:1 >The Palestinian Health Ministry has estimated for most of the conflict that around 70% of the dead are women and children; these numbers have been corroborated by the United Nations and the World Health Organization. [74][75][76]. On the other hand, according to the Israel Defense Forces, an estimated less than 1:1 ratio has been reported [3][4]. I guess it depends on who you are listening to.
- anramon 2y ago[flagged]
- dredmorbius 2y ago[flagged]
- brodouevencode 2y agoSymmetrical warfare is still the preferred method of response. I think this qualifies as such.
- orionsbelt 2y ago[flagged]
- OutOfHere 2y ago> This was a deliberate targeting of terrorists, Negative. Anyone can use a pager or a walkie talkie. If this were to have happened in say the US, it would 100% be considered not only terrorism, but an act of war.
- orionsbelt 2y agoWho is using a pager or walkie talking in 2024? I will admit there was maybe a few bystanders standing too close to a Hezbollah member, but how many non-Hezbollah members do you think really had one of these pagers? Keep in mind Israel also does surveillance and probably tracked where they went. If it turns out a material % of these were owned by civilians, I might agree with you, but I suspect that’s not the case.
- anthk 2y agoIn the 3rd world, any hospital.
- OutOfHere 2y agoJust because you don't know of legitimate uses of a walkie doesn't mean they don't exist. A walkie can work independent of a cell phone network, which makes it uniquely useful for numerous applications. Not everyone can afford a cell phone bill.