2 ms·

What would the 'light' pattern be in this case, where the business wants to comply with regulation and maximize profit?

latexr 2y ago
Make a good product that does not rely on exploiting user data. Advertise in relevant locations without tracking (e.g. if you sell cars, advertise on a car-centric website/forum/magazine).
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  You don't have to reply to every comment I make in reply to someone else in this thread, just FYI. > Make a good product that does not rely on exploiting user data. Advertise in relevant locations without tracking (e.g. if you sell cars, advertise on a car-centric website/forum/magazine). No, none of this is a light pattern. It's just abstaining from the activity entirely.
  - latexr 2y ago
    What are you on about? Do you realise you replied to me first, and the two times I replied to you responding to someone else were on the same thread that goes back to my original comment? No one’s after you, I just looked at the child replies in my post. Honestly I didn’t even realise I was replying to the same person. Complaining about it happening twice is quite the persecution complex.
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      > What are you on about? Exactly what you say here: > the two times I replied to you responding to someone else --- > Honestly I didn’t even realise I was replying to the same person. I find that very odd, not to pay attention to who you are replying to, but OK. > quite the persecution complex. Nah. It's a pretty common behavior or 'pattern' that some people who feel strongly about a position will reply to other child comments by a person they are debating with. I find it frustrating because it normally leads to a lot of redundancy, with the same points being repeated in multiple places, just wasting time. I mistakenly thought that's what you were doing. I apologize.
troupo 2y ago
Have a business that doesn't rely on pervasive and invasive tracking, and on wholesale sales of that data to thousands of "partners"?
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  That's not a light pattern, that's giving up the activity entirely. If an activity is explicitly legal, even with regulations, then there should be a light pattern for that activity is there is a dark pattern. Look at selling cigarettes in the 80s. A dark pattern would be trying to influence kids on the low, which mascots like Joe Camel. A light pattern would not be abstaining from selling cigarettes entirely, analogous to what you suggest, but rather voluntarily adding labels to packaging and taking other precautions.
  - troupo 2y ago
    > That's not a light pattern, that's giving up the activity entirely. What's not right? Giving up pervasive and invasive tracking and selling user data? > but rather voluntarily adding labels to packaging and taking other precautions. GDPR, literally, is: if you use data not strictly required for the functioning of your business, ask user for consent. How is this not a "light pattern"?
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      > What's not right? Giving up pervasive and invasive tracking and selling user data? Exactly. Abstaining isn't a light pattern. A light pattern would be doing the thing in a non malicious way. > GDPR, literally, is: if you use data not strictly required for the functioning of your business, ask user for consent. You're missing the point. You were alleging businesses are using dark patterns while being in compliance with the law. I'm asking what a light pattern would be for collecting as much data as possible which is an explicitly legal activity as long as the regulations are followed. You answered not engaging in that activity at all, which is not an answer.
      - 2y ago
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
Make a settings page where I can go and explicitly enable tracking rather than make it popup. Oh, right, nobody is going to use that page. So, is it really the EU fault for the cookie popup, which is a dark pattern?

Make a good product that does not rely on exploiting user data. Advertise in relevant locations without tracking (e.g. if you sell cars, advertise on a car-centric website/forum/magazine).

ruthmarx 2y ago
You don't have to reply to every comment I make in reply to someone else in this thread, just FYI. > Make a good product that does not rely on exploiting user data. Advertise in relevant locations without tracking (e.g. if you sell cars, advertise on a car-centric website/forum/magazine). No, none of this is a light pattern. It's just abstaining from the activity entirely.
- latexr 2y ago
  What are you on about? Do you realise you replied to me first, and the two times I replied to you responding to someone else were on the same thread that goes back to my original comment? No one’s after you, I just looked at the child replies in my post. Honestly I didn’t even realise I was replying to the same person. Complaining about it happening twice is quite the persecution complex.
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    > What are you on about? Exactly what you say here: > the two times I replied to you responding to someone else --- > Honestly I didn’t even realise I was replying to the same person. I find that very odd, not to pay attention to who you are replying to, but OK. > quite the persecution complex. Nah. It's a pretty common behavior or 'pattern' that some people who feel strongly about a position will reply to other child comments by a person they are debating with. I find it frustrating because it normally leads to a lot of redundancy, with the same points being repeated in multiple places, just wasting time. I mistakenly thought that's what you were doing. I apologize.

troupo 2y ago

Have a business that doesn't rely on pervasive and invasive tracking, and on wholesale sales of that data to thousands of "partners"?

ruthmarx 2y ago
That's not a light pattern, that's giving up the activity entirely. If an activity is explicitly legal, even with regulations, then there should be a light pattern for that activity is there is a dark pattern. Look at selling cigarettes in the 80s. A dark pattern would be trying to influence kids on the low, which mascots like Joe Camel. A light pattern would not be abstaining from selling cigarettes entirely, analogous to what you suggest, but rather voluntarily adding labels to packaging and taking other precautions.
- troupo 2y ago
  > That's not a light pattern, that's giving up the activity entirely. What's not right? Giving up pervasive and invasive tracking and selling user data? > but rather voluntarily adding labels to packaging and taking other precautions. GDPR, literally, is: if you use data not strictly required for the functioning of your business, ask user for consent. How is this not a "light pattern"?
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    > What's not right? Giving up pervasive and invasive tracking and selling user data? Exactly. Abstaining isn't a light pattern. A light pattern would be doing the thing in a non malicious way. > GDPR, literally, is: if you use data not strictly required for the functioning of your business, ask user for consent. You're missing the point. You were alleging businesses are using dark patterns while being in compliance with the law. I'm asking what a light pattern would be for collecting as much data as possible which is an explicitly legal activity as long as the regulations are followed. You answered not engaging in that activity at all, which is not an answer.
    - 2y ago

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago

Make a settings page where I can go and explicitly enable tracking rather than make it popup. Oh, right, nobody is going to use that page. So, is it really the EU fault for the cookie popup, which is a dark pattern?