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> Also, it is shocking how authoritarian the “left” has become in my lifetime. We are going through a general uptick in authoritarian "discussions" online. It

> Also, it is shocking how authoritarian the “left” has become in my lifetime. We are going through a general uptick in authoritarian "discussions" online. It's interesting that you are only seeing it on the "left".

Diti 2y ago
As far as I noticed, the “right” effectively gets the boot in most online communities which abide to a Code of Conduct, leaving mostly the “left” (the most recent example I have in mind of such moderation efforts is the save-nix-together.org open letter). It’s interesting that you don’t notice this happening in the communities you seem to frequent.
- Ensorceled 2y ago
  No, I see a lot of the "right" discourse. Many are openly supporting Putin now. I follow many conservative (US) pundits and journalists and they have either taken a hard right turn or are raising the alarm and supporting Harris. I see similar trends here in Canada. Yes, I see that the left has become more authoritarian, but it pales to the hard shift I see on the right.
  - ljsprague 2y ago
    Something inherently wrong with supporting Putin?
    - Fargren 2y ago
      No one said it was wrong, they just said it's "right" discourse.
Lerc 2y ago
Perhaps they only find the increase shocking on the left. There's a bunch of ways to measure political opinions. The Authoritarian-liberal one being one of many. The economic-left and the economic-right are becoming more separated from the social-left and the social-right. Tribalism also causes people to take on the positions of their 'tribe' which may be distinct to what their own personalities might normally gravitate to. In the past, it has been the economic-left and social-right that were more prone to authoritarianism with their proponents believing that their ideals should be enforced. The economic-right and social-left was more of a logic vs empathy tension ('this works' vs 'this is right') and a lot of people seemed to reconcile the two for one flavour of centrism. To me it is a little shocking how authoritarian elements of the social-left have become, an ideology that has long been characterized by empathy and supporting others seems to have become blended with opinions which are exclusionary or dogmatic, which seem counter to their own principles. In some respects maybe this is just the march of time making the progressive opinions of one generation the orthodoxy of the next and these people are just finding a new conservatism rooted in a new orthodoxy.
- Eisenstein 2y ago
  Isn't that just what happens when you keep pushing the Overton Window to the right? What would have been 'centrists' have to become more authoritarian to stand ground or else they let their position get absorbed by the stronger leaning side. When one side refuses to compromise even slightly, you have two options: give in or dig in.
  - travisb 2y ago
    If the left-most edge of the Overton Window had been pushed right of the centrist position of, say, the 90s that would be correct. But it's obvious that isn't at all true -- many moderate left positions today would have been considered outlandishly radical in the 90s. It's rather more likely that the increase of left-authoritarianism is due to increasing resistance to moving the Overton Window, both the left-most edge and the right-most edge, leftwards. As resistance increases more forceful techniques are necessary.
    - Eisenstein 2y ago
      > many moderate left positions today would have been considered outlandishly radical in the 90s. Such as?
      - bigstrat2003 2y ago
        Gay marriage, for instance. In the 90s (and even the 2000s) it was pretty common even for people on the left to come down on the side of "I don't think we should allow gay marriage". Whereas now, it's so firmly within the Overton window that even most of the right thinks gay marriage is fine.
        Eisenstein 2y ago
        The fact is that society changes over time and what was unacceptable during one time becomes acceptable in another. This does not indicate a shift to the left, it indicates humanity becoming less intolerant. Are you going to argue that allow black people and white people to marry and repealing miscegenation laws mean that the country shifted to the left?
_lvbh 2y ago
They said nothing about it being “only” on the left. I somewhat expect authoritarianism on the right and therefore would hold the left (to which I belong) at a higher standard.
- Ensorceled 2y ago
  Authoritarianism on the right is becoming its mainstream, while authoritarianism on the left is merely on the rise.
robertlagrant 2y ago
> It's interesting that you are only seeing it on the "left". One explanation is that now things have switched round, and people with left-wings beliefs, sometimes extremely life-wing beliefs, control a lot of institutions and structures. People who are my age (too old) grew up with the right being in that position, but I don't think that's a contemporary instinct to possess.

Diti 2y ago

As far as I noticed, the “right” effectively gets the boot in most online communities which abide to a Code of Conduct, leaving mostly the “left” (the most recent example I have in mind of such moderation efforts is the save-nix-together.org open letter). It’s interesting that you don’t notice this happening in the communities you seem to frequent.

Ensorceled 2y ago
No, I see a lot of the "right" discourse. Many are openly supporting Putin now. I follow many conservative (US) pundits and journalists and they have either taken a hard right turn or are raising the alarm and supporting Harris. I see similar trends here in Canada. Yes, I see that the left has become more authoritarian, but it pales to the hard shift I see on the right.
- ljsprague 2y ago
  Something inherently wrong with supporting Putin?
  - Fargren 2y ago
    No one said it was wrong, they just said it's "right" discourse.

Lerc 2y ago

Perhaps they only find the increase shocking on the left. There's a bunch of ways to measure political opinions. The Authoritarian-liberal one being one of many. The economic-left and the economic-right are becoming more separated from the social-left and the social-right. Tribalism also causes people to take on the positions of their 'tribe' which may be distinct to what their own personalities might normally gravitate to. In the past, it has been the economic-left and social-right that were more prone to authoritarianism with their proponents believing that their ideals should be enforced. The economic-right and social-left was more of a logic vs empathy tension ('this works' vs 'this is right') and a lot of people seemed to reconcile the two for one flavour of centrism. To me it is a little shocking how authoritarian elements of the social-left have become, an ideology that has long been characterized by empathy and supporting others seems to have become blended with opinions which are exclusionary or dogmatic, which seem counter to their own principles. In some respects maybe this is just the march of time making the progressive opinions of one generation the orthodoxy of the next and these people are just finding a new conservatism rooted in a new orthodoxy.

Eisenstein 2y ago
Isn't that just what happens when you keep pushing the Overton Window to the right? What would have been 'centrists' have to become more authoritarian to stand ground or else they let their position get absorbed by the stronger leaning side. When one side refuses to compromise even slightly, you have two options: give in or dig in.
- travisb 2y ago
  If the left-most edge of the Overton Window had been pushed right of the centrist position of, say, the 90s that would be correct. But it's obvious that isn't at all true -- many moderate left positions today would have been considered outlandishly radical in the 90s. It's rather more likely that the increase of left-authoritarianism is due to increasing resistance to moving the Overton Window, both the left-most edge and the right-most edge, leftwards. As resistance increases more forceful techniques are necessary.
  - Eisenstein 2y ago
    > many moderate left positions today would have been considered outlandishly radical in the 90s. Such as?
    - bigstrat2003 2y ago
      Gay marriage, for instance. In the 90s (and even the 2000s) it was pretty common even for people on the left to come down on the side of "I don't think we should allow gay marriage". Whereas now, it's so firmly within the Overton window that even most of the right thinks gay marriage is fine.
      - Eisenstein 2y ago
        The fact is that society changes over time and what was unacceptable during one time becomes acceptable in another. This does not indicate a shift to the left, it indicates humanity becoming less intolerant. Are you going to argue that allow black people and white people to marry and repealing miscegenation laws mean that the country shifted to the left?

_lvbh 2y ago

They said nothing about it being “only” on the left. I somewhat expect authoritarianism on the right and therefore would hold the left (to which I belong) at a higher standard.

Ensorceled 2y ago
Authoritarianism on the right is becoming its mainstream, while authoritarianism on the left is merely on the rise.

robertlagrant 2y ago

> It's interesting that you are only seeing it on the "left". One explanation is that now things have switched round, and people with left-wings beliefs, sometimes extremely life-wing beliefs, control a lot of institutions and structures. People who are my age (too old) grew up with the right being in that position, but I don't think that's a contemporary instinct to possess.