5 ms·

The Symbolics Genera Programming Environment (1987)

48 points by mepian 2y ago

brudgers 2y ago
direct to pdf, https://ia804608.us.archive.org/10/items/smbx-genera-programming-env-1987/smbx-genera-programming-env-1987.pdf https://ia804608.us.archive.org/10/items/smbx-genera-program...
towerwoerjrrwer 2y ago
"Genera's design philosophy holds that no action of the software should be hidden from the designer" So refreshing and edgy even to this day. Also says a lot about the "New Jersey" model that CS as a whole pivoted to (see UNIX haters handbook), where every damn thing is hard , opaque and/or hidden, either in propreitary blobs, or not much differently, in complex unreliable build systems, and binary blobs. A bit sad that we're moving back out of this religious dogma of the 70s with half-baked lisps like Python etc.
- linksnapzz 2y ago
  The original Bell Labs approach was to make things as simple as possible, even at the expense of functionality- should that impact simplicity. Adhering to that philosophy is very, very hard. Especially since complexity sells better & is often more expedient.
andsoitis 2y ago
You can run Open Genera: https://archives.loomcom.com/genera/genera-install.html https://archives.loomcom.com/genera/genera-install.html And if you’re interested in other historical lisp systems, you can try out Medley Interlisp right in your browser: https://interlisp.org/ https://interlisp.org/
ralphc 2y ago
This sounds similar to Smalltalk systems, especially in that it clashes with modern version control source code practices. What is the modern equivalent, that would be used with files checked in to git? IDE's? Jupyter or Livebook?
- mepian 2y ago
  Some combination of [0], [1], [2], and [3] is the closest modern equivalent. [0] https://slime.common-lisp.dev/ https://slime.common-lisp.dev/ [1] https://github.com/joaotavora/sly https://github.com/joaotavora/sly [2] https://mcclim.common-lisp.dev/ https://mcclim.common-lisp.dev/ [3] https://lem-project.github.io/ https://lem-project.github.io/ Also, Portable Genera is still being developed by a former Symbolics employee but unfortunately it is only available for a chosen few, at least for now.
- igouy 2y ago
  "Cuis-Smalltalk uses GitHub to host, version, diff its core development and to manage a set of external packages" https://cuis-smalltalk.github.io/TheCuisBook/Daily-Workflow.html https://cuis-smalltalk.github.io/TheCuisBook/Daily-Workflow.... Even back in the '90s: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/mastering-envydeveloper/getting-started/366D6047E43B1088D7790F3C3019016F https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/mastering-envydevel...
dmd 2y ago
Search for “kalman reti lisp” on youtube for some neat demos of this. (Trivia: He registered the first ever .com)

48 points by mepian 2y ago

direct to pdf, https://ia804608.us.archive.org/10/items/smbx-genera-programming-env-1987/smbx-genera-programming-env-1987.pdf https://ia804608.us.archive.org/10/items/smbx-genera-program...

towerwoerjrrwer 2y ago

"Genera's design philosophy holds that no action of the software should be hidden from the designer" So refreshing and edgy even to this day. Also says a lot about the "New Jersey" model that CS as a whole pivoted to (see UNIX haters handbook), where every damn thing is hard , opaque and/or hidden, either in propreitary blobs, or not much differently, in complex unreliable build systems, and binary blobs. A bit sad that we're moving back out of this religious dogma of the 70s with half-baked lisps like Python etc.

linksnapzz 2y ago
The original Bell Labs approach was to make things as simple as possible, even at the expense of functionality- should that impact simplicity. Adhering to that philosophy is very, very hard. Especially since complexity sells better & is often more expedient.

andsoitis 2y ago

You can run Open Genera: https://archives.loomcom.com/genera/genera-install.html https://archives.loomcom.com/genera/genera-install.html And if you’re interested in other historical lisp systems, you can try out Medley Interlisp right in your browser: https://interlisp.org/ https://interlisp.org/

ralphc 2y ago

This sounds similar to Smalltalk systems, especially in that it clashes with modern version control source code practices. What is the modern equivalent, that would be used with files checked in to git? IDE's? Jupyter or Livebook?

mepian 2y ago
Some combination of [0], [1], [2], and [3] is the closest modern equivalent. [0] https://slime.common-lisp.dev/ https://slime.common-lisp.dev/ [1] https://github.com/joaotavora/sly https://github.com/joaotavora/sly [2] https://mcclim.common-lisp.dev/ https://mcclim.common-lisp.dev/ [3] https://lem-project.github.io/ https://lem-project.github.io/ Also, Portable Genera is still being developed by a former Symbolics employee but unfortunately it is only available for a chosen few, at least for now.
igouy 2y ago
"Cuis-Smalltalk uses GitHub to host, version, diff its core development and to manage a set of external packages" https://cuis-smalltalk.github.io/TheCuisBook/Daily-Workflow.html https://cuis-smalltalk.github.io/TheCuisBook/Daily-Workflow.... Even back in the '90s: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/mastering-envydeveloper/getting-started/366D6047E43B1088D7790F3C3019016F https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/mastering-envydevel...

dmd 2y ago

Search for “kalman reti lisp” on youtube for some neat demos of this. (Trivia: He registered the first ever .com)