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As much as Israel likes to spread that narrative, religious fundamentalism had nothing to do with October 7th. And the number of innocents murdered, the amount

As much as Israel likes to spread that narrative, religious fundamentalism had nothing to do with October 7th. And the number of innocents murdered, the amount of destruction wrought, the land stolen by Israel in Gaza since then has completely eclipsed the relative few killed by Hamas. Or are Israeli lives worth more?

raxxorraxor 2y ago
Israel left Gaza before, I don't think it will happen again soon. Palestinians will also not work in Israel anymore in the foreseeable future at least. It is not a question about which lives are worth more. There are a lot of indications that Palestinian lives are worth more in Israel than in Gaza for that matter. To blame this attack on Israel is quite callous and I don't believe you that you care about any lives in that region. It just doesn't add up, but that is just my opinion. If it wasn't fundamentalism, what do you think motivated the attacks?
- GordonS 2y ago
  > If it wasn't fundamentalism, what do you think motivated the attacks? I don't mean to be snarky, but I'm finding it very difficult to take you seriously when you make preposterous comments like "Palestinian lives are worth more in Israel than in Gaza" and "Israel left Gaza before". Hamas is not a fundamentalist group, and indeed they have frequently called out Islamic extremist groups, such as ISIS, for their murderous behaviour. Probably best we don't discuss ISIS further in the context of Israel though... I also suspect you know very well the reasons for the October 7th attack, which Hamas have been open about[0]: in essence, it's a battle against: - Israel's blockade and control of the Gaza strip - Israel's occupation and colonialism of Palestinian lands - Israel's continued violence, murder and dehumanisation of Palestinian civilians - Continued Israeli aggression and land theft - Israel's apartheid regime - Israel's complete disregard for human rights, international law and the UN - Israel's inhumane treatment of thousands of Palestinian hostages, including institutionalised violence, torture, starvation, amputation, sexual assault and rape[1] [0] https://www.palestinechronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/PDF.pdf https://www.palestinechronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/0... [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-rights-group-says-palestinian-prisoners-subject-systematic-abuse-2024-08-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-rights-gro...
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    You are making excuses, Hamas is a fundamentalist group. We can go back into history on who started the conflict, but even then I come back to the persecutions of Jews that fought for their independence and won. The result of that is the state of Israel. A democracy. Flawed, but in another league than comparable nations in that region. A victory some are not ready to accept but they ultimately have to. Perhaps after they manage this first step there will be hope for a Palestinian state. And yes, Israel did leave Gaza in 2005. That there were blockades was due to security concerns, which proved to be justified not only after the October attacks. > Israel is a sick, apartheid regime that must be stopped. This is a quote by you in another comment. Together with your excused for Hamas your arguments seem obsessive and misdirected.
    - GordonS 2y ago
      > Hamas is a fundamentalist group You've offered no evidence to support this repeated claim, and haven't refuted the evidence to the contrary. > your arguments seem obsessive and misdirected Not obsessive, just consistent; I could just as well call you obsessive for your repeated excuses of Israel's destruction of Gaza and their murder, starvation, torture and rape of Palestinians. You have a very Israeli view on history, and it's obvious neither of us are going to change our standpoint, so I bid you adieu.
      - raxxorraxor 2y ago
        How much their charta still is relevant today is in question, but they have direct calls to kill Jews in there. They adapted that from al-Husseini, which stated it exactly like that. That was before the founding of Israel btw. I don't think I want to indulge in proving Hamas to be an extremist organization any further.
        GordonS 2y ago
        More lies, and straight out of the Hasbara playbook at that! From the Hamas charter: "Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity."[0] [0] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full I don't think I want to indulge in proving Israel to be an murderous, colonial, terrorist, apartheid regime any further.

raxxorraxor 2y ago

Israel left Gaza before, I don't think it will happen again soon. Palestinians will also not work in Israel anymore in the foreseeable future at least. It is not a question about which lives are worth more. There are a lot of indications that Palestinian lives are worth more in Israel than in Gaza for that matter. To blame this attack on Israel is quite callous and I don't believe you that you care about any lives in that region. It just doesn't add up, but that is just my opinion. If it wasn't fundamentalism, what do you think motivated the attacks?

GordonS 2y ago
> If it wasn't fundamentalism, what do you think motivated the attacks? I don't mean to be snarky, but I'm finding it very difficult to take you seriously when you make preposterous comments like "Palestinian lives are worth more in Israel than in Gaza" and "Israel left Gaza before". Hamas is not a fundamentalist group, and indeed they have frequently called out Islamic extremist groups, such as ISIS, for their murderous behaviour. Probably best we don't discuss ISIS further in the context of Israel though... I also suspect you know very well the reasons for the October 7th attack, which Hamas have been open about[0]: in essence, it's a battle against: - Israel's blockade and control of the Gaza strip - Israel's occupation and colonialism of Palestinian lands - Israel's continued violence, murder and dehumanisation of Palestinian civilians - Continued Israeli aggression and land theft - Israel's apartheid regime - Israel's complete disregard for human rights, international law and the UN - Israel's inhumane treatment of thousands of Palestinian hostages, including institutionalised violence, torture, starvation, amputation, sexual assault and rape[1] [0] https://www.palestinechronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/PDF.pdf https://www.palestinechronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/0... [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-rights-group-says-palestinian-prisoners-subject-systematic-abuse-2024-08-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-rights-gro...
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  You are making excuses, Hamas is a fundamentalist group. We can go back into history on who started the conflict, but even then I come back to the persecutions of Jews that fought for their independence and won. The result of that is the state of Israel. A democracy. Flawed, but in another league than comparable nations in that region. A victory some are not ready to accept but they ultimately have to. Perhaps after they manage this first step there will be hope for a Palestinian state. And yes, Israel did leave Gaza in 2005. That there were blockades was due to security concerns, which proved to be justified not only after the October attacks. > Israel is a sick, apartheid regime that must be stopped. This is a quote by you in another comment. Together with your excused for Hamas your arguments seem obsessive and misdirected.
  - GordonS 2y ago
    > Hamas is a fundamentalist group You've offered no evidence to support this repeated claim, and haven't refuted the evidence to the contrary. > your arguments seem obsessive and misdirected Not obsessive, just consistent; I could just as well call you obsessive for your repeated excuses of Israel's destruction of Gaza and their murder, starvation, torture and rape of Palestinians. You have a very Israeli view on history, and it's obvious neither of us are going to change our standpoint, so I bid you adieu.
    - raxxorraxor 2y ago
      How much their charta still is relevant today is in question, but they have direct calls to kill Jews in there. They adapted that from al-Husseini, which stated it exactly like that. That was before the founding of Israel btw. I don't think I want to indulge in proving Hamas to be an extremist organization any further.
      - GordonS 2y ago
        More lies, and straight out of the Hasbara playbook at that! From the Hamas charter: "Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity."[0] [0] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full I don't think I want to indulge in proving Israel to be an murderous, colonial, terrorist, apartheid regime any further.