3 ms·

I agree that NPR is regurgitating the narrative by "Iran International English", but to me the body of the article is crystal clear, this guy was an activist, a

by pas 2y ago

I agree that NPR is regurgitating the narrative by "Iran International English", but to me the body of the article is crystal clear, this guy was an activist, and this particular "ratio-ing" was a likely trigger that led to him being included in this batch of people "to be made example of". I think NPR is providing a disservice by reporting the actual "charges" he was found guilty of in 2020, because they don't matter. It's a brutal dictatorship, of course there are laws against criticizing the government ("anti-regime propaganda", and of course anyone can be charged with treason-lite (pro-Israel propaganda) and ... it's a theocracy, of course there are blasphemy laws, yeey! We don't have high-certainty information about the proximate causes that landed this guy in prison, but it doesn't matter (it matters for scholars if they are doing some kind of deep dive on crackdowns, and of course it matters for actual people on the ground, who are trying to contest the charges, but even then the statistics is not kind to their efforts). Similarly putting the photo of the ayatollah there is a disservice to Hossein. And ... when it comes to what to do with this as a news consumer, the sad fact is that this is not news. There's zero new bit of actionable information in this. (NPR published this because "Iran International" published this on 31 Aug, the "trial" was apparently on 7th of August. He tweeted in June, and was released from prison sometime around April in 2023. Wikipedia says 2024, but it's likely wrong.)

avodonosov 2y ago
> Similarly putting the photo of the ayatollah there is a disservice to Hossein. The photo is irrelevant and could easily be left out, but why is it a disservice to Hossein Shanbehzadeh? > I agree that NPR is regurgitating the narrative by "Iran International English", but to me the body of the article is crystal clear, this guy was an activist, and this particular "ratio-ing" was a likely trigger that led to him being included in this batch of people "to be made example of". I have never heard of "Iran International". And in general I know very little about Iran. Some caricature mentions (https://youtu.be/g2KsZHRrFpU?t=88 https://youtu.be/g2KsZHRrFpU?t=88, https://youtu.be/9EDkTAaUMDU?t=1055 https://youtu.be/9EDkTAaUMDU?t=1055), a brief approach to the wikipedia article sometime long ago, islamic revolution, head scarfs... The link got me curious about the level of opposing actions suficient to be prosecuted in Iran. I tried to search for Hossein Shanbehzadeh's original social media posts made after his release from the previous sentence - that's the biggest missing part for me. Failed to find them - the twitter account was deactivated, other social media didn't show up in the search results for "Hossein Shanbehzadeh". But there are several pages in google search results of other news sites posting the same story. So may be the media not repeating "Iran International" directly, but simply racing to repeat each other and publish this sensational message, withouth giving too much dilligence and thinking? BTW, Uzbek branch of Radio Libery reports that: "According to the lawyer, the prosecution did not prove to the guilt of Shanbehzade under the most difficult article. As evidence of guilt under other articles, the court cited his posts in support of political prisoners and the abolition of the mandatory wearing of the hijab, the use of the hashtag #NoToExecutions, criticism of the Iranian elections and the expression of joy about the death of former President Ebrahim Raisi. [..] As Iran International notes, critics of the Iranian regime often use the point and other single symbols to express disagreement with the authorities." https://rus.ozodlik.org/a/33103899.html https://rus.ozodlik.org/a/33103899.html (auto translated from russion to english). > We don't have high-certainty information about the proximate causes that landed this guy in prison, but it doesn't matter (it matters for scholars if they are doing some kind of deep dive on crackdowns, and of course it matters for actual people on the ground, who are trying to contest the charges, but even then the statistics is not kind to their efforts). Why the real reasons do not matter for usual readers? They very much matter, I think. > I think NPR is providing a disservice by reporting the actual "charges" he was found guilty of in 2020, because they don't matter. You mean 2024. The info about the formal official charges makes the picture more complete. Wait... Do you value the quality of the article not by its informativeness for the reader, but by level of "service" it makes to Hossein Shanbehzadeh? Wow! I don't know if that's really your position, but that's a mind blowing possibility! > It's a brutal dictatorship, of course there are laws against criticizing the government ("anti-regime propaganda", and of course anyone can be charged with treason-lite (pro-Israel propaganda) and ... it's a theocracy, of course there are blasphemy laws, yeey! Do you mean the Iranian regime is a-priori evil, so everyone prosecuted by it is a-priori good and suffers undeservedly. Therefore decent media just need to mobilize public support for them, even if falsifying / concealing the reality from the readers? (Even if the premises was true, such reasoning conclusion is wrong). > And ... when it comes to what to do with this as a news consumer, the sad fact is that this is not news. There's zero new bit of actionable information in this. (NPR published this because "Iran International" published this on 31 Aug, the "trial" was apparently on 7th of August. He tweeted in June, and was released from prison sometime around April in 2023. Wikipedia says 2024, but it's likely wrong.) The information may be not immediately actionable, but as a news consumer I want to build adequate worldview, which may form the ground for decisions and actions in the future.
- pas 2y ago
  Because the newsworthy thing is about this guy, not about the autocrat. If NPR feels it's important enough to publish, then it should be either without a header or a relevant one. Just slapping on a random stock photo is bad journalism. > Why the real reasons do not matter for usual readers? They very much matter, I think. Of course the real reason matters, but the reason is not the "charges". (And as I said, the whole process might be of interest to some people, so correctly reporting can be a valuable service.) > Do you mean the Iranian regime is a-priori evil Dictatorships can do good things too, so no. For example providing healthcare, education, etc. Even shitty public services are better than nothing in many cases. And that includes policing too. (Despite all the rage about abolition of police we know that power vacuums likely lead to bad things.) That said when it comes to crackdowns on protest activity my prior for "dictatorship doing bad thing" is pretty fucking high. > Do you value the quality of the article not by its informativeness for the reader, but by level of "service" it makes to Hossein Shanbehzadeh? I value both. As a reader I don't want to read a hack job, and as readers' attention and time are very scarce I don't like the presence and proliferation of these low-quality pieces. (I am aware that it was likely even worse before. When people had fewer opportunities to check what the fuck the newspapers printed.) And if a piece is about someone then that someone deserves that the text does not selectively misrepresent facts, and handles topics with the care they deserve. I don't like that this guy's plight has become basically a tick in a checkbox for "make content", and particularly that it became clickbait. And of course he could think otherwise. Perhaps he thinks any press is good press. Maybe it helps his situation. But that's the question that I want to get information on, not about which branch of the kangaroo court he was dragged to. > ... as a news consumer I want to build adequate worldview, ... Me too, but as mentioned, time and attention are the bottleneck. And maybe my expectations for news is unrealistically high.
  - avodonosov 2y ago
    ok

by pas 2y ago

avodonosov 2y ago

> Similarly putting the photo of the ayatollah there is a disservice to Hossein. The photo is irrelevant and could easily be left out, but why is it a disservice to Hossein Shanbehzadeh? > I agree that NPR is regurgitating the narrative by "Iran International English", but to me the body of the article is crystal clear, this guy was an activist, and this particular "ratio-ing" was a likely trigger that led to him being included in this batch of people "to be made example of". I have never heard of "Iran International". And in general I know very little about Iran. Some caricature mentions (https://youtu.be/g2KsZHRrFpU?t=88 https://youtu.be/g2KsZHRrFpU?t=88, https://youtu.be/9EDkTAaUMDU?t=1055 https://youtu.be/9EDkTAaUMDU?t=1055), a brief approach to the wikipedia article sometime long ago, islamic revolution, head scarfs... The link got me curious about the level of opposing actions suficient to be prosecuted in Iran. I tried to search for Hossein Shanbehzadeh's original social media posts made after his release from the previous sentence - that's the biggest missing part for me. Failed to find them - the twitter account was deactivated, other social media didn't show up in the search results for "Hossein Shanbehzadeh". But there are several pages in google search results of other news sites posting the same story. So may be the media not repeating "Iran International" directly, but simply racing to repeat each other and publish this sensational message, withouth giving too much dilligence and thinking? BTW, Uzbek branch of Radio Libery reports that: "According to the lawyer, the prosecution did not prove to the guilt of Shanbehzade under the most difficult article. As evidence of guilt under other articles, the court cited his posts in support of political prisoners and the abolition of the mandatory wearing of the hijab, the use of the hashtag #NoToExecutions, criticism of the Iranian elections and the expression of joy about the death of former President Ebrahim Raisi. [..] As Iran International notes, critics of the Iranian regime often use the point and other single symbols to express disagreement with the authorities." https://rus.ozodlik.org/a/33103899.html https://rus.ozodlik.org/a/33103899.html (auto translated from russion to english). > We don't have high-certainty information about the proximate causes that landed this guy in prison, but it doesn't matter (it matters for scholars if they are doing some kind of deep dive on crackdowns, and of course it matters for actual people on the ground, who are trying to contest the charges, but even then the statistics is not kind to their efforts). Why the real reasons do not matter for usual readers? They very much matter, I think. > I think NPR is providing a disservice by reporting the actual "charges" he was found guilty of in 2020, because they don't matter. You mean 2024. The info about the formal official charges makes the picture more complete. Wait... Do you value the quality of the article not by its informativeness for the reader, but by level of "service" it makes to Hossein Shanbehzadeh? Wow! I don't know if that's really your position, but that's a mind blowing possibility! > It's a brutal dictatorship, of course there are laws against criticizing the government ("anti-regime propaganda", and of course anyone can be charged with treason-lite (pro-Israel propaganda) and ... it's a theocracy, of course there are blasphemy laws, yeey! Do you mean the Iranian regime is a-priori evil, so everyone prosecuted by it is a-priori good and suffers undeservedly. Therefore decent media just need to mobilize public support for them, even if falsifying / concealing the reality from the readers? (Even if the premises was true, such reasoning conclusion is wrong). > And ... when it comes to what to do with this as a news consumer, the sad fact is that this is not news. There's zero new bit of actionable information in this. (NPR published this because "Iran International" published this on 31 Aug, the "trial" was apparently on 7th of August. He tweeted in June, and was released from prison sometime around April in 2023. Wikipedia says 2024, but it's likely wrong.) The information may be not immediately actionable, but as a news consumer I want to build adequate worldview, which may form the ground for decisions and actions in the future.

pas 2y ago
Because the newsworthy thing is about this guy, not about the autocrat. If NPR feels it's important enough to publish, then it should be either without a header or a relevant one. Just slapping on a random stock photo is bad journalism. > Why the real reasons do not matter for usual readers? They very much matter, I think. Of course the real reason matters, but the reason is not the "charges". (And as I said, the whole process might be of interest to some people, so correctly reporting can be a valuable service.) > Do you mean the Iranian regime is a-priori evil Dictatorships can do good things too, so no. For example providing healthcare, education, etc. Even shitty public services are better than nothing in many cases. And that includes policing too. (Despite all the rage about abolition of police we know that power vacuums likely lead to bad things.) That said when it comes to crackdowns on protest activity my prior for "dictatorship doing bad thing" is pretty fucking high. > Do you value the quality of the article not by its informativeness for the reader, but by level of "service" it makes to Hossein Shanbehzadeh? I value both. As a reader I don't want to read a hack job, and as readers' attention and time are very scarce I don't like the presence and proliferation of these low-quality pieces. (I am aware that it was likely even worse before. When people had fewer opportunities to check what the fuck the newspapers printed.) And if a piece is about someone then that someone deserves that the text does not selectively misrepresent facts, and handles topics with the care they deserve. I don't like that this guy's plight has become basically a tick in a checkbox for "make content", and particularly that it became clickbait. And of course he could think otherwise. Perhaps he thinks any press is good press. Maybe it helps his situation. But that's the question that I want to get information on, not about which branch of the kangaroo court he was dragged to. > ... as a news consumer I want to build adequate worldview, ... Me too, but as mentioned, time and attention are the bottleneck. And maybe my expectations for news is unrealistically high.
- avodonosov 2y ago
  ok