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We were only temporarily good at shipbuilding in the world wars. The United States just don't have much of an aspiration to be world class in building ships. G

• throwaway48476 2y ago
  The US was a shipbuilding superpower because it had what Europe did not, access to vast untapped timber. It wasn't until globalization that the US lost its shipbuilding industry.
  • Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    > access to vast untapped timber ??? Scandinavia is full of it. But I suppose in the 1600's it was the Netherlands that cut down all the forests, they were the shipbuilding superpower at the time.
    • throwaway48476 2y ago
      They didn't have enough. >The Swedish Navy planted oak trees on the island beginning in 1831 to provide strategically important timber for future ship construction. Once the timber was ready to harvest it was no longer required for ship construction. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visings%C3%B6 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visings%C3%B6
    • speleding 2y ago
      Fun fact: the word "Holland" comes from "Houtland" meaning "Wood" land. There is almost no forrest left there now because they turned the trees into boats during their golden age.
    • tirant 2y ago
      It was the same situation for Spain. Its rise as a naval superpower in the 15th and 16th centuries came at a high environmental cost too. To build its fleet, including those iconic Spanish galleons, Spain logged high amounts of oak and pine, especially from northern regions like Cantabria and the Basque Country. As ship production ramped up, there were growing concerns about resource depletion. To the point that by the late 16th century, Spain was forced to start importing timber from its colonies to keep up with demand.
      • shmeeed 2y ago
        What I find so chilling and reminding about this history is that to this very day, the spanish peninsula remains largely deforested because of that fleet they had 500 years ago.
    • impossiblefork 2y ago
      We have forests, but not like the US. We had to carefully manage our forests in order to keep them.
  • csdreamer7 2y ago
    > The US was a shipbuilding superpower because it had what Europe did not, access to vast untapped timber. It wasn't until globalization that the US lost its shipbuilding industry. Where did you get this information? The Spanish-American war wasn't considered much of a war by Americans at the time since the American fleet had been built with steel vs the Spanish that still used wooden ships. Those ships were run on coal. The US lost its shipbuilding industry because of cheaper competition from Japan and S. Korea in the civilian sector and Congress favors aircraft carriers over smaller ships like frigates and destroyers from what I read.
• vimy 2y ago
  China has the largest navy in the world. And the gap with the US keeps growing. Times are changing.
  • omegabravo 2y ago
    how is this measured? Because if it's by total vessels it's a poor comparison. If it's by total aircraft carrier, it's also a poor comparison. Basically measuring this is difficult, but this is contrary to my only knowledge of this which was a Wendover video (that was an enjoyable watch), but I wouldn't hold in the highest standard.
  • dukeyukey 2y ago
    > China has the largest navy in the world. China has the most ships. Most of those ships are tiny. By tonnage, the US comes _way_ out on top.
    • FooBarBizBazz 2y ago
      Before adding up ship tonnage, we should subtract one US carrier for every, I dunno, two ASBMs possessed by the PRC, and if (lol, I mean when) we get to zero, move on to, say, the Arleigh Burke class. I guess we can give the US some bonus points here for each SM-6 they have, but pretty sure those'll run out in a week too. On the "plus" side, China is food-insecure, so the US can cause millions of civilian deaths via famine. So it can/would still win, just via genocide. It would take a decade though, and require a strong campaign by the media to maintain domestic support. Actually, no, I'm overstating things. The strategy would not be so much to kill so many people, as to "make the economy scream" (as in South and Central America), so as to hopefully bring about regime change. The net result might actually be an increase in immigration from China to the US (to the extent that people are able to make that migration). In the long run that'd be a net win for the US, actually. Indeed, you could say that the first shots of that campaign have already happened. Look at Chinese youth unemployment.
      • imglorp 2y ago
        I think the number is a lot higher than two ASBM per carrier. There's always a group of carrier, cruiser, and a destroyer squadron that provide a layered defense. So it's probably not that simple. https://totalmilitaryinsight.com/aircraft-carrier-defense-systems/ https://totalmilitaryinsight.com/aircraft-carrier-defense-sy...
• eru 2y ago
  Well, you can (partially) thank the Jones Act for US ship building being so abysmal.
  • tivert 2y ago
    > Well, you can (partially) thank the Jones Act for US ship building being so abysmal. Or you can thank it for there being any shipbuilding left at all. I would like to hear the case for how repealing the Jones Act would strengthen the US shipbuilding industry. I imagine it would be quite amusing.
    • eru 2y ago
      It's pretty easy to make a limited case that should convince you, though not very amusing, I'm afraid. > [The Jones Act] requires that all goods transported by water between U.S. ports be carried on ships that have been constructed in the United States and that fly the U.S. flag, are owned by U.S. citizens, and are crewed by U.S. citizens and U.S. permanent residents. Repeal all provisions save for the requirement of having to be constructed in the US. It's not what I would suggest (an outright repeal would be better), but it's easy to see how this partial repeal would strengthen the US shipbuilding industry: you are making their products more useful and cheaper to operate. For comparison, you can have a look at eg German shipbuilding. Germany isn't exactly a low-cost country, has no equivalent of the Jones Act, and is doing some shipbuilding. (They aren't the biggest player in building whole ships, but the world loves to import German Diesel engines. Division of labour and all that.)