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The larger lesson here is this is what happens when governments try to regulate things they don't understand. Cookie popups just add friction, and it's not clea

The larger lesson here is this is what happens when governments try to regulate things they don't understand. Cookie popups just add friction, and it's not clear consumers see any real privacy benefit. What's even worse is people seem to not care that the policy isn't working, but they aren't telling lawmakers to fix it.

sofixa 2y ago
The lawmakers regulated that a website should warn you, and then upgraded to ask for your consent, before collecting and storing privately identifiable information about you. The regulation doesn't mention cookie popups. The easiest way to comply is to not collect nor store any such information.
- ipv6ipv4 2y ago
  > The regulation doesn't mention cookie popups. The easiest way to comply is to not collect nor store any such information. Utopia is just around the corner as long as everyone does exactly as I say rather than being driven by self interest.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Governments don't think in terms of utopia, but the rest is literally what a government is: here are the rules, you will follow them or get punished. Relying on self-interest is Laissez-faire, that had the result of (1) the invention of communism and (2) basically ended even in the US with the Great Depression. Communism kinda had the same problem, as it made false assumptions about human nature and self-interest.
- Earw0rm 2y ago
  How do you manage login sessions without? If you're a site that has even basic analytics reporting requirements, how do you do any of that without? "Don't do these things" is a decent option for sole traders, microbusiness and hobby website operators, but good luck selling that to anyone "in a suit" (more likely $500 jeans or chinos nowadays).
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    That is why we should do proper enforcement. Cookie popup that is not needed 1% revenue fine for each month it stays up. Suits will start to understand things really really fast.
  - yxhuvud 2y ago
    You don't need a cookie popup for managing login sessions. Things that are essential to providing the feature don't need permission. At least based on the so called cookie law. There is also GDPR, but you'd typically agree to that on signing up, not on accessing the site.
  - GJim 2y ago
    I'm puzzled how one can remain so ignorant. Once again, there is no law requiring cookie popups. Gathering data fairly and transparently (e.g. login credentials) is perfectly fine. However if you wish to pass my data to third parties to track me (advertisers take a bow) then you need my explicit opt-in permission to do so. And so you should. This isn't difficult to understand and has been law in the UK and EU for quite some time now. Explanation is here: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/data-protection-principles/a-guide-to-the-data-protection-principles/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-re...
  - sofixa 2y ago
    > If you're a site that has even basic analytics reporting requirements, how do you do any of that without? If your analytics are anonymous, as they should be, you don't need a cookie, nor a consent banner. > How do you manage login sessions without? You don't need to ask for consent for that, because it's a necessary requirement for functionality.
jiggawatts 2y ago
Website admins chose the path of malicious compliance.
- michaelteter 2y ago
  Not necessarily. Many are told by their bosses to either put minimal effort into becoming compliant, or worse, told to use a horrid cookie notice service that creates so much user frustration that some of us abandon the site rather than deal with it. I think with few exceptions, most web admins just want to get the cookie notice sh*t out of the way and get on with work that matters.
  - jiggawatts 2y ago
    The “told to implement a horrid solution” is the malicious compliance.
michaelteter 2y ago
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. I believe the way you stated this is accurate. The regulation and its outcome was clearly not understood or intended by those who mandated it. Absolutely everyone is suffering from this. As for the "not care", I think the primary issue is that most people don't make much effort to understand the things they use. If they understood what was going on, they would be more upset and possibly make some effort to get things changed/reverted. I would put a bit of blame on big corporations for not spending some of their lobbying money on fighting this requirement - not because they should get a free pass at misusing our info, but because they should be well equipped to know that the regulation will be addressed in a crappy way that costs them money and annoys users.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  I think it's a bit weird (but the author did the same thing) that the blame is put on regulators here for not being precise enough with language, and not companies are are happily exploiting the loophole for as long as they can. And if it does get repealed: great! companies win, tracking is back. There seems to be a nuance missing here in most of this discussion.
- troupo 2y ago
  GDPR is general regulation that doesn't even talk about cookies or browsers. The obnoxious cookie popups is the industry's malicious and calculated response.
- troupo 2y ago
  GDPR is general regulation that doesn't even talk about cookies or browsers. The obnoxious cookie popups is the industry's malicious and calculated response. This is a good sibling comment about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41576346 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41576346
USiBqidmOOkAqRb 2y ago
Could you perhaps muster up the courage to clearly substantiate what you're criticizing? These terms "government", "regulation", "lawmakers" come off as dogwhistles. It's not like evil Ursula von der Leyen walked up to the blue lectern and said websites now must present a dialog with one button before you can look at the content. If you're talking about GDPR, then it regulates that businesses have to have reason to store and process PII. I don't see a reason to be unhappy about that.

sofixa 2y ago

The lawmakers regulated that a website should warn you, and then upgraded to ask for your consent, before collecting and storing privately identifiable information about you. The regulation doesn't mention cookie popups. The easiest way to comply is to not collect nor store any such information.

ipv6ipv4 2y ago
> The regulation doesn't mention cookie popups. The easiest way to comply is to not collect nor store any such information. Utopia is just around the corner as long as everyone does exactly as I say rather than being driven by self interest.
- ben_w 2y ago
  Governments don't think in terms of utopia, but the rest is literally what a government is: here are the rules, you will follow them or get punished. Relying on self-interest is Laissez-faire, that had the result of (1) the invention of communism and (2) basically ended even in the US with the Great Depression. Communism kinda had the same problem, as it made false assumptions about human nature and self-interest.
Earw0rm 2y ago
How do you manage login sessions without? If you're a site that has even basic analytics reporting requirements, how do you do any of that without? "Don't do these things" is a decent option for sole traders, microbusiness and hobby website operators, but good luck selling that to anyone "in a suit" (more likely $500 jeans or chinos nowadays).
- Ekaros 2y ago
  That is why we should do proper enforcement. Cookie popup that is not needed 1% revenue fine for each month it stays up. Suits will start to understand things really really fast.
- yxhuvud 2y ago
  You don't need a cookie popup for managing login sessions. Things that are essential to providing the feature don't need permission. At least based on the so called cookie law. There is also GDPR, but you'd typically agree to that on signing up, not on accessing the site.
- GJim 2y ago
  I'm puzzled how one can remain so ignorant. Once again, there is no law requiring cookie popups. Gathering data fairly and transparently (e.g. login credentials) is perfectly fine. However if you wish to pass my data to third parties to track me (advertisers take a bow) then you need my explicit opt-in permission to do so. And so you should. This isn't difficult to understand and has been law in the UK and EU for quite some time now. Explanation is here: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/data-protection-principles/a-guide-to-the-data-protection-principles/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-re...
- sofixa 2y ago
  > If you're a site that has even basic analytics reporting requirements, how do you do any of that without? If your analytics are anonymous, as they should be, you don't need a cookie, nor a consent banner. > How do you manage login sessions without? You don't need to ask for consent for that, because it's a necessary requirement for functionality.

jiggawatts 2y ago

Website admins chose the path of malicious compliance.

michaelteter 2y ago
Not necessarily. Many are told by their bosses to either put minimal effort into becoming compliant, or worse, told to use a horrid cookie notice service that creates so much user frustration that some of us abandon the site rather than deal with it. I think with few exceptions, most web admins just want to get the cookie notice sh*t out of the way and get on with work that matters.
- jiggawatts 2y ago
  The “told to implement a horrid solution” is the malicious compliance.

michaelteter 2y ago

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. I believe the way you stated this is accurate. The regulation and its outcome was clearly not understood or intended by those who mandated it. Absolutely everyone is suffering from this. As for the "not care", I think the primary issue is that most people don't make much effort to understand the things they use. If they understood what was going on, they would be more upset and possibly make some effort to get things changed/reverted. I would put a bit of blame on big corporations for not spending some of their lobbying money on fighting this requirement - not because they should get a free pass at misusing our info, but because they should be well equipped to know that the regulation will be addressed in a crappy way that costs them money and annoys users.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
I think it's a bit weird (but the author did the same thing) that the blame is put on regulators here for not being precise enough with language, and not companies are are happily exploiting the loophole for as long as they can. And if it does get repealed: great! companies win, tracking is back. There seems to be a nuance missing here in most of this discussion.
troupo 2y ago
GDPR is general regulation that doesn't even talk about cookies or browsers. The obnoxious cookie popups is the industry's malicious and calculated response.
troupo 2y ago
GDPR is general regulation that doesn't even talk about cookies or browsers. The obnoxious cookie popups is the industry's malicious and calculated response. This is a good sibling comment about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41576346 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41576346

USiBqidmOOkAqRb 2y ago

Could you perhaps muster up the courage to clearly substantiate what you're criticizing? These terms "government", "regulation", "lawmakers" come off as dogwhistles. It's not like evil Ursula von der Leyen walked up to the blue lectern and said websites now must present a dialog with one button before you can look at the content. If you're talking about GDPR, then it regulates that businesses have to have reason to store and process PII. I don't see a reason to be unhappy about that.