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systemd is bringing Linux feature parity to Windows NT in the mid-90s. That's 30 years ago for those of you keeping score at home. Funny the author mentions So

systemd is bringing Linux feature parity to Windows NT in the mid-90s. That's 30 years ago for those of you keeping score at home. Funny the author mentions Solaris because Solaris has SMF and other systemd-similar tools. Linux pre-systemd looked like a kernel duct taped to a bunch of random thrown-together shell scripts... because it was. A sorry state of affairs that a bunch of very stubborn people were afraid to let go. The simple fact that configuring networking out of the box is completely different on every distro and sometimes within distros depending on which tools were loaded, in 2024, is simply insane.

wmf 2y ago
If you allow distros it's going to lead to diversity. Even Solaris has multiple incompatible distos since they hired Ian Murdock.
matheusmoreira 2y ago
That's what makes Linux great. The entire Linux user space is replaceable. You can trash it all and make your own if you want to. You can trash systemd, write your own program and boot Linux directly into it if that's what you want. And people do, myself included. Not a single other operating system lets you do this. There's always some component that you cannot touch. I'd rather have the chaos of Linux distributions than the tyranny of "standard" ways of doing things.
- vetinari 2y ago
  > You can trash it all and make your own if you want to. It is important to note, that if you want to do it, you have to roll up your sleeves and do it. Not to expect free manpower of others to provide it to you. Or in another words: http://islinuxaboutchoice.com/ http://islinuxaboutchoice.com/
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    Absolutely. The biggest reason systemd is taking over is companies like Red Hat keep paying people to work on it. As time passes, systemd gets better, gets more features, makes the life of distribution maintainers easier and therefore gets adopted, and makes the lives of users easier too, mine included. I'm making my own freestanding Linux thingy but I'm not under any illusions that it's going to replace systemd or any other software any time soon. I'm just one guy doing it in his free time because he enjoys it. I really hate it when I see people complaining about systemd. The people behind systemd had a vision, they reimagined Linux user space and put the necessary work into making their vision a reality. They're an inspiration for me. Not only that, they took their work and they released it as GPL licensed free software. One would think the users would be more thankful. One would think people would not have moral objections to free software getting released to the world. Some technical criticism is certainly warranted but the sheer hatred that people display towards it and its developers certainly is not. I agree that "Linux is about choice" is often misinterpreted. It's about my choice as a programmer and software developer to redefine the entire system downstream of the kernel however I want. Users are encouraged to themselves become technical and educated so that they too can enjoy this power. However, we're not about to drop everything and start maintaining some legacy system because people who aren't paying us keep insisting that it's how things gotta be done. We're programmers, we like it when things are made in our image.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      >the sheer hatred that people display towards it and its developers certainly is not [warranted]. Especially when many of the complaints can be summarized as, "I can no longer use my years of experience and knowledge about the old init system." (The people who complain that systemd unnecessarily enlarges an install's attack surface I have more sympathy for.)
egorfine 2y ago
Configuring networking is different not only between distros but also between different versions of a single distro, say, Ubuntu. Every major release lately brings new networking configuration method while abandoning the previous. Is it frustrating? You bet. Thankfully I can still `apt install ifupdown` and it works, but who knows for how long? systemd was optional for a couple of releases as well (`apt install upstart`) but of course not anymore.
- vetinari 2y ago
  Funnily enough, the network configuration problem is not due to systemd -- which has nothing to do with it -- but with Canonical being Canonical. Someone here has a new toy (netplan), so why not force it on users, with some excuse. For the same reason, why Canonical forces netplan (consistency between desktop, using NetworkManager and server, using systemd-network), Redhat standardized on NetworkManager instead.
  - egorfine 2y ago
    Sure, it has nothing to do with systemd. The vibes are extremely similar though. "We don't care what you think we are kids with a new toy and we will shove it down your throat no matter what" kind of thing. (I hate NetworkManager just like I hate netplan though. Both can get off my lawn.)

wmf 2y ago

If you allow distros it's going to lead to diversity. Even Solaris has multiple incompatible distos since they hired Ian Murdock.

matheusmoreira 2y ago

That's what makes Linux great. The entire Linux user space is replaceable. You can trash it all and make your own if you want to. You can trash systemd, write your own program and boot Linux directly into it if that's what you want. And people do, myself included. Not a single other operating system lets you do this. There's always some component that you cannot touch. I'd rather have the chaos of Linux distributions than the tyranny of "standard" ways of doing things.

vetinari 2y ago
> You can trash it all and make your own if you want to. It is important to note, that if you want to do it, you have to roll up your sleeves and do it. Not to expect free manpower of others to provide it to you. Or in another words: http://islinuxaboutchoice.com/ http://islinuxaboutchoice.com/
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  Absolutely. The biggest reason systemd is taking over is companies like Red Hat keep paying people to work on it. As time passes, systemd gets better, gets more features, makes the life of distribution maintainers easier and therefore gets adopted, and makes the lives of users easier too, mine included. I'm making my own freestanding Linux thingy but I'm not under any illusions that it's going to replace systemd or any other software any time soon. I'm just one guy doing it in his free time because he enjoys it. I really hate it when I see people complaining about systemd. The people behind systemd had a vision, they reimagined Linux user space and put the necessary work into making their vision a reality. They're an inspiration for me. Not only that, they took their work and they released it as GPL licensed free software. One would think the users would be more thankful. One would think people would not have moral objections to free software getting released to the world. Some technical criticism is certainly warranted but the sheer hatred that people display towards it and its developers certainly is not. I agree that "Linux is about choice" is often misinterpreted. It's about my choice as a programmer and software developer to redefine the entire system downstream of the kernel however I want. Users are encouraged to themselves become technical and educated so that they too can enjoy this power. However, we're not about to drop everything and start maintaining some legacy system because people who aren't paying us keep insisting that it's how things gotta be done. We're programmers, we like it when things are made in our image.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    >the sheer hatred that people display towards it and its developers certainly is not [warranted]. Especially when many of the complaints can be summarized as, "I can no longer use my years of experience and knowledge about the old init system." (The people who complain that systemd unnecessarily enlarges an install's attack surface I have more sympathy for.)

egorfine 2y ago

Configuring networking is different not only between distros but also between different versions of a single distro, say, Ubuntu. Every major release lately brings new networking configuration method while abandoning the previous. Is it frustrating? You bet. Thankfully I can still `apt install ifupdown` and it works, but who knows for how long? systemd was optional for a couple of releases as well (`apt install upstart`) but of course not anymore.

vetinari 2y ago
Funnily enough, the network configuration problem is not due to systemd -- which has nothing to do with it -- but with Canonical being Canonical. Someone here has a new toy (netplan), so why not force it on users, with some excuse. For the same reason, why Canonical forces netplan (consistency between desktop, using NetworkManager and server, using systemd-network), Redhat standardized on NetworkManager instead.
- egorfine 2y ago
  Sure, it has nothing to do with systemd. The vibes are extremely similar though. "We don't care what you think we are kids with a new toy and we will shove it down your throat no matter what" kind of thing. (I hate NetworkManager just like I hate netplan though. Both can get off my lawn.)