3 ms·

The single major flaw with systemd... Linux was(is?) the system. Shell scripts could configure the system, reasonably well. Systemd meant it was no longer poss

The single major flaw with systemd... Linux was(is?) the system. Shell scripts could configure the system, reasonably well. Systemd meant it was no longer possible to simply fix a linux distro that had it...a massive recompile and intricate understanding of many low level systems was needed. No, you shouldn't need to know about PDP-11s to fix your buggy wifi, neither should you need to know a massive binary subsystem to configure your wifi either... So as far as doing its "one job", it did/does it fairly poorly, even today. It is a lot more standard and it does get points from me in that respect, but it fails at being a configurable system completely.

akerl_ 2y ago
I've fixed a lot of problems on a lot of systems and never needed to recompile systemd. The majority of them I've fixed by editing text files. What kinds of problems are you hitting where you need to recompile systemd?
- smaudet 2y ago
  I could simply trace shell scripts with some file io, or echo statements. Now there are systems using python, even better I can set breakpoints and modify, no need to recompile. Configuring the system with textfiles only works if the system anticipated all your needs, and to anticipate all needs is not only complex but error prone.
  - akerl_ 2y ago
    Systemd unit files can exec shell scripts… There have been times where I needed to do something that wasn’t available in the unit file syntax, so I just do it in a shell script and ExecStart that.
    - smaudet 2y ago
      I suppose, can you arbitrarily replace portions of systemd with scripts, though? If so, perhaps it is less of a problem than it used to be. It still doesn't fit every need but it's better if it can get out of the way when told to.
eternityforest 2y ago
I don't think systemd is meant to be fixed or modified, unless you are actually contributing to the upstream systemd project and have accepted that it will be a time consuming project. It seems to be made for, and works well for, a modern ephemeral infrastructure workflow. Build stuff to work with an unmodified distro, wipe it and reinstall if it goes wrong.

akerl_ 2y ago

I've fixed a lot of problems on a lot of systems and never needed to recompile systemd. The majority of them I've fixed by editing text files. What kinds of problems are you hitting where you need to recompile systemd?

smaudet 2y ago
I could simply trace shell scripts with some file io, or echo statements. Now there are systems using python, even better I can set breakpoints and modify, no need to recompile. Configuring the system with textfiles only works if the system anticipated all your needs, and to anticipate all needs is not only complex but error prone.
- akerl_ 2y ago
  Systemd unit files can exec shell scripts… There have been times where I needed to do something that wasn’t available in the unit file syntax, so I just do it in a shell script and ExecStart that.
  - smaudet 2y ago
    I suppose, can you arbitrarily replace portions of systemd with scripts, though? If so, perhaps it is less of a problem than it used to be. It still doesn't fit every need but it's better if it can get out of the way when told to.

eternityforest 2y ago

I don't think systemd is meant to be fixed or modified, unless you are actually contributing to the upstream systemd project and have accepted that it will be a time consuming project. It seems to be made for, and works well for, a modern ephemeral infrastructure workflow. Build stuff to work with an unmodified distro, wipe it and reinstall if it goes wrong.