23 ms·

> unable to live any kind of life at all. This kind of language is awfully eugenics-adjacent, and part of why autistic people resent having neurotypical people

by fwip 2y ago

> unable to live any kind of life at all. This kind of language is awfully eugenics-adjacent, and part of why autistic people resent having neurotypical people tell them how they should feel about it. If he's "not living any kind of life", it's a short hop to saying it would be better if he died, or was never born. Even if he's a "5-year old child," even children lead meaningful lives.

spencerchubb 2y ago
Who said anything about eugenics or killing autistic people? The comment chain is discussing hypothetical cures for autism
- fwip 2y ago
  I did. Saying that a person is not living a life worth living is a short, short hop from saying "well, why are we spending all these resources to keep them alive?" Further up the chain, somebody also mentioned detecting autism pre-birth. While this could lead to earlier intervention for autistic children, it also would lead to an increase in selective abortion of autistic fetuses, the same as any other condition we screen for. Which is a simple form of eugenics.
  - throwaway48540 2y ago
    It's really not a short hop at all, it's a total opposite of the whole concept of "we're looking for ways to help the people with ASD".
    - fwip 2y ago
      I'm not trying to attack you or say you wish ill for him. I'm trying to explain how your rhetoric (not your goals!) is philosophically aligned with people who don't want autistic people to exist.
throwaway48540 2y ago
Eh, what? I'm suggesting he needs help.
- fwip 2y ago
  Do you mean he needs help in his day to day life (because we all do - no man is an island), or that he needs professional help so that he can lead a normal life?
  - throwaway48540 2y ago
    He can't lead any kind of normal life, no amount of professional help or supervision will change that, he doesn't have any rational experience of the world around him. His usual day is filled with running around the room, bumping into walls while screaming. As he becomes an adult, he more frequently needs to be tied down to the bed (done by professional psychiatrists at a hospital). He never has a moment of lucidity, you can't talk to him about anything; he understands speech and can talk, but it's phrases like "NEED PEE NOOOOOOOOOW" screamed at the top of his lungs, and not much else. Then you need to drag him there while he fights you, he doesn't understand you're trying to fulfill his request. The more pressing the matter, the more will he fight everything and everyone around; of course that also means that the pee or feces usually end up outside the toilet, so he's wearing a diaper. He has preferences for toys and children's cartoons, but the only way he makes others aware of that is that it calms him down, he never said something such as "I like X" and from brain imaging results the doctors don't think he has thoughts like that, as his brain is permanently so overstimulated he's constantly in flight-or-fight instinctive mode. Which is good, actually - it means that if this overstimulation could be somehow lessened, he actually might become capable of having something resembling a normal life. So, the help I said he needs is the researchers to keep looking for ways to decrease the impact of his autism, instead of listening to people saying stuff like "autism doesn't need to be cured".

by fwip 2y ago

spencerchubb 2y ago

Who said anything about eugenics or killing autistic people? The comment chain is discussing hypothetical cures for autism

fwip 2y ago
I did. Saying that a person is not living a life worth living is a short, short hop from saying "well, why are we spending all these resources to keep them alive?" Further up the chain, somebody also mentioned detecting autism pre-birth. While this could lead to earlier intervention for autistic children, it also would lead to an increase in selective abortion of autistic fetuses, the same as any other condition we screen for. Which is a simple form of eugenics.
- throwaway48540 2y ago
  It's really not a short hop at all, it's a total opposite of the whole concept of "we're looking for ways to help the people with ASD".
  - fwip 2y ago
    I'm not trying to attack you or say you wish ill for him. I'm trying to explain how your rhetoric (not your goals!) is philosophically aligned with people who don't want autistic people to exist.

throwaway48540 2y ago

Eh, what? I'm suggesting he needs help.

fwip 2y ago
Do you mean he needs help in his day to day life (because we all do - no man is an island), or that he needs professional help so that he can lead a normal life?
- throwaway48540 2y ago
  He can't lead any kind of normal life, no amount of professional help or supervision will change that, he doesn't have any rational experience of the world around him. His usual day is filled with running around the room, bumping into walls while screaming. As he becomes an adult, he more frequently needs to be tied down to the bed (done by professional psychiatrists at a hospital). He never has a moment of lucidity, you can't talk to him about anything; he understands speech and can talk, but it's phrases like "NEED PEE NOOOOOOOOOW" screamed at the top of his lungs, and not much else. Then you need to drag him there while he fights you, he doesn't understand you're trying to fulfill his request. The more pressing the matter, the more will he fight everything and everyone around; of course that also means that the pee or feces usually end up outside the toilet, so he's wearing a diaper. He has preferences for toys and children's cartoons, but the only way he makes others aware of that is that it calms him down, he never said something such as "I like X" and from brain imaging results the doctors don't think he has thoughts like that, as his brain is permanently so overstimulated he's constantly in flight-or-fight instinctive mode. Which is good, actually - it means that if this overstimulation could be somehow lessened, he actually might become capable of having something resembling a normal life. So, the help I said he needs is the researchers to keep looking for ways to decrease the impact of his autism, instead of listening to people saying stuff like "autism doesn't need to be cured".