5 ms·

Does it have to be run in a GraalVM, or any JVM implementation is fine?

by theanonymousone 2y ago

jryan49 2y ago
Graal let's you compile native binaries
- ackfoobar 2y ago
  Graal is many things (a marketing nightmare). The guest language part is orthogonal to the native packager AFAIK.
  - w10-1 2y ago
    Yes, but I was under the impression that graal-level inter-op was limited to packages the graal toolchain could compile. Thus, while swift and graal both depend on llvm, they use different variants and there's no real way to make inter-op between swift and graal (even using the llvm it which graal is said to be able to consume). e.g., I believe this announcement represents the work to compile a python (3.11) and some proof-of-concept python packages using graal toolchain, to spur other packages to support the same. So I'd really love to be wrong, but I believe building under the graal llvm is the common factor.
    - kaba0 2y ago
      I don’t really see how swift comes into the picture, besides SuLong being a thing (running LLVM bitcode). Native binary was meant as a compile target in the previous comment, I believe, not as an input. Graal can do both, but as a target it has no dependency on LLVM. So yeah, graalvm should be able to produce a native binary for python code (though depending on the specifics it might actually be more like a native binary interpreter running python scripts, it can’t optimize in every circumstance but I’m hazy on the details).
Okx 2y ago
> You can use GraalPy with GraalVM JDK, Oracle JDK, or OpenJDK https://www.graalvm.org/latest/reference-manual/python/ https://www.graalvm.org/latest/reference-manual/python/
- theanonymousone 2y ago
  Thanks. I actually managed to run the quick example with Temurin Java 22. Maybe that is what they mean by "OpenJDK": java.vm.name=OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM, java.vendor.version=Temurin-22.0.2+9
  - ackfoobar 2y ago
    Have you turned on `-XX:+EnableJVMCI`? https://www.graalvm.org/latest/reference-manual/embed-languages/#explanations https://www.graalvm.org/latest/reference-manual/embed-langua...
theanonymousone 2y ago
Update. I actually managed to run the quick example with Temurin Java 22: java.vm.name=OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM, java.vendor.version=Temurin-22.0.2+9
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  It won't JIT compile on anything other than GraalVM however. So it'll run, but slowly.
  - ackfoobar 2y ago
    The documentation says "Optimized if enabled via experimental VM option". (I linked in another thread.)

Does it have to be run in a GraalVM, or any JVM implementation is fine?

jryan49 2y ago

Graal let's you compile native binaries

ackfoobar 2y ago
Graal is many things (a marketing nightmare). The guest language part is orthogonal to the native packager AFAIK.
- w10-1 2y ago
  Yes, but I was under the impression that graal-level inter-op was limited to packages the graal toolchain could compile. Thus, while swift and graal both depend on llvm, they use different variants and there's no real way to make inter-op between swift and graal (even using the llvm it which graal is said to be able to consume). e.g., I believe this announcement represents the work to compile a python (3.11) and some proof-of-concept python packages using graal toolchain, to spur other packages to support the same. So I'd really love to be wrong, but I believe building under the graal llvm is the common factor.
  - kaba0 2y ago
    I don’t really see how swift comes into the picture, besides SuLong being a thing (running LLVM bitcode). Native binary was meant as a compile target in the previous comment, I believe, not as an input. Graal can do both, but as a target it has no dependency on LLVM. So yeah, graalvm should be able to produce a native binary for python code (though depending on the specifics it might actually be more like a native binary interpreter running python scripts, it can’t optimize in every circumstance but I’m hazy on the details).

Okx 2y ago

> You can use GraalPy with GraalVM JDK, Oracle JDK, or OpenJDK https://www.graalvm.org/latest/reference-manual/python/ https://www.graalvm.org/latest/reference-manual/python/

theanonymousone 2y ago
Thanks. I actually managed to run the quick example with Temurin Java 22. Maybe that is what they mean by "OpenJDK": java.vm.name=OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM, java.vendor.version=Temurin-22.0.2+9
- ackfoobar 2y ago
  Have you turned on `-XX:+EnableJVMCI`? https://www.graalvm.org/latest/reference-manual/embed-languages/#explanations https://www.graalvm.org/latest/reference-manual/embed-langua...

theanonymousone 2y ago

Update. I actually managed to run the quick example with Temurin Java 22: java.vm.name=OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM, java.vendor.version=Temurin-22.0.2+9

mike_hearn 2y ago
It won't JIT compile on anything other than GraalVM however. So it'll run, but slowly.
- ackfoobar 2y ago
  The documentation says "Optimized if enabled via experimental VM option". (I linked in another thread.)